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Derby News Network Power Rankings - March 2010

DNN WFTDA W/L Next Notes
1 Oly
 
1 W 2010 2-0
2009 12-0
3/27 vs Madison A skin-of-their-teeth, last-jam escape against a fierce Rose City team and a long, tense battle with Philly before finally taking control show that Oly isn't unstoppable, but until somebody can actually seal the deal on them, they're still the best. Their WFTDA win streak is now at 13.
2 Gotham
 
1 E 2010 0-0
2009 7-2
4/10 vs Charm City No action or movement since last ranking. The Wild West Showdown demonstrated that the top of the rankings is tightening considerably, but Gotham's last-jam losses to Oly and Philly, added to their previously dominant 18-0 run before that, makes us wary of moving them off the #2 spot just yet.
3 Texas
 
1 SC 2010 3-0
2009 11-2
5/8 @ Denver The Texecutioners spent the Governor's Cup tournament merrily handing out 100+ point thrashings to Dallas (twice) and Assassination City. If there's any change in Texas' position, it will be made evident through other matchups.
4 Denver
 
3 W 2010 0-0
2009 12-3
5/8 vs Texas No action or movement since last ranking.
2 W 2010 2-0
2009 8-7
4/3 vs Duke City Two dominating wins at WWS -- an expected one over green Bellingham and an unexpected one over an uncommonly ineffective Bay Area -- show that Rocky hasn't lost a step since their trip to Nationals.
6 Rose City
 
5 W 2010 2-1
2009 5-3
4/16 vs Charm City Rose City came within one jam of knocking off the top team, Oly -- but also came within one jam of losing to Philly. Based on that, they take Philly's old spot, but they will have to best a higher-ranked team if they're going to break past Rocky Mountain, who stopped them last October in head-to-head action.
7 Rat City
 
4 W 2010 2-0
2009 5-7
3/26 vs Madison Rat City narrowly defeated Philly at the Wild West Showdown, and along with regional rivals Rose City, hops above them in this ranking.
8 Philly
 
2 E 2010 0-3
2009 9-2
4/17 @ Boston While Philly loses two slots from their previous #6, the two teams that pass them beat them by only a jam each. We're inclined to think that any future meeting between any combination of Rose City, Rat City and Philly is pretty much a coin toss right now.
9 Windy City
 
1 NC 2010 0-0
2009 10-2
11/12 @ [TBA] To Be Announced No action since last ranking, but slip two spots on the rise of Rose City and Rat City.
10 Boston
 
3 E 2010 1-0
2009 10-9
3/20 @ Carolina An expected big win over Providence doesn't do anything to affect Boston's ranking, as they hold steady at 10.
11 Madison
 
2 NC 2010 0-0
2009 7-4
3/26 @ Rat City No action or movement since last ranking, but an end-of-month trip to the Pacific Northwest that has them meeting with Rat City and Oly should provide a good sense of their national standing.
12 Charm City
 
4 E 2010 1-0
2009 13-5
3/14 vs River City Handled unranked Montreal without too many problems, but that sheds little light on how they might do against the WFTDA powerhouses; we'll have to wait until April, when a characteristically ambitious schedule sees them take on Gotham, Rose City, Rat City and Oly in the space of two weekends.
13 Detroit
 
3 NC 2010 0-0
2009 8-6
3/27 vs Steel City No action or movement since last ranking.
14 Kansas City
 
2 SC 2010 5-0
2009 9-4
5/22 @ Atlanta No action or movement since last ranking.
15 Cincinnati
 
4 NC 2010 0-0
2009 10-5
3/27 vs San Diego No action for Cincinnati yet this year, but they take advantage of the WWS stumbles from Bay Area and Duke City to move up two slots.
16 Steel City
 
7 E 2010 1-0
2009 11-3
3/20 vs Maine Steel City thumped unranked DC by 96 points in February, but their upward movement is mostly based on other teams dropping. They will take on Detroit on March 27 in a bout that could significantly improve their position -- if they can rise to the challenge.
17 Dallas
 
4 SC 2010 2-2
2009 7-3
3/6 vs Tampa Bay After narrowly losing to Houston at last year's SC Regionals, Dallas roared back to thump them twice at the Governor's Cup. In an odd tournament-related scheduling quirk, Dallas' last six games have all been against either Houston or Texas. We'll get a better sense of their overall standing as they go through this weekend's Clover Cup tournament.
18 Duke City
 
7 W 2010 2-0
2009 5-8
4/3 @ Rocky Mountain Duke City sported an uncharacteristic roster at the Wild West Showdown and had a real scare against upstart, unranked Jet City, who nearly took advantage of it for what would have been a huge upset. Unranked Sacred also hung fairly close to Duke before Duke took over in the second half. They appear to be a team in the midst of finding a new dynamic -- they drop a few spaces for now, but we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.
19 Bay Area
 
6 W 2010 1-2
2009 5-5
5/1 vs [TBA] To Be Announced Bay Area was a big surprise at the Wild West Showdown, but not in the way they might have liked, mustering only 44 total points against Rocky Mountain and Rose City while giving up 349. Like Duke City, they're hard to figure right now -- it's unclear whether that weekend was indicative of what we'll see going forward this year for Bay Area, but they drop for the moment.
20 Houston
 
3 SC 2010 1-2
2009 6-3
3/6 @ Dallas Solidly defeated by Dallas twice in the same weekend, Houston drops a few slots but has a chance for a little redemption at this weekend's Clover Cup tournament.
21 San Diego
 
- 2010 0-0
2009 8-3
3/27 @ Cincinnati No action since last ranking, but actually move up a bit on the Carolina recalculation. Their rematch this month with Cincinnati, who beat them by 32 in their last meeting, gives them a good shot at halting a slow but steady slide down the list since their debut.
22 Brewcity
 
6 NC 2010 2-0
2009 6-4
5/22 vs [TBA] To Be Announced Milwaukee's crew opened their year with solid wins over Fort Wayne and Arch Rival, but it'll be a while before we see them in interleague action again, as they're currently focused on their local-teams season.
23 North Star
 
5 NC 2010 0-0
2009 9-3
4/17 @ Sioux Falls Quiet thus far this year, but they pop up a slot on the Carolina recalculation.
24 Minnesota
 
9 NC 2010 0-0
2009 7-3
5/22 @ Pikes Peak Although Minnesota hasn't played since our previous ranking, we're doing a rare reversal here after looking at the data again, giving Minnesota the nod over the previously higher-ranked Carolina on the strength of their head-to-head win against Carolina last October.
25 Carolina
 
5 E 2010 0-0
2009 5-8
3/20 vs Boston Previously, we had Carolina ranked quite a few slots higher than the Minnesota team they've just fallen under, but putting fresh eyes on the data makes us rethink the head-to-head meeting we'd considered an outlier at that time. Carolina takes up the bottom spot -- with a Providence team gunning for them on March 21st.
Key:
E WFTDA East region
W WFTDA West region
NC WFTDA North Central region
SC WFTDA South Central region

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Shouldn't it be 14-0 for OLY

Shouldn't it be 14-0 for OLY 12-0 in 09 and 2-0 in 2010

Overall, yes

... but we were referring specifically to wins in WFTDA sanctioned bouts. One of the 2009 wins was over a Texas local team.

*le sigh*

Here's hoping that Montreal makes it up there soon!

Then, once that is acheived, I want to see London rollergirls in there :D The day I see that I will pee my pants with excitement. FACT!

wheeeeee

yeah when we got international on this thing, derby is really in business

nashville

nashville is also playing north star at ece in june.

re: nashville

nashville is definitely a team to keep your eye on this year. i predict a break into the power rankings for them, as well as a possible trip to nationals, should SC regionals pan out the way i think they're gonna. that third spot in SC regionals to go to nationals is pretty up for grabs this year, with houston losing to dallas recently, dallas losing to atlanta, and atlanta losing to nashville. those four teams are going to battle it out pretty hard.

BOOOOOOOOO!

and more BOOOOOOOOOO!

... and more BOOOOOOOOOOOO.

... and more BOOOOOOOOOOOO.

i don't envy y'alls position....

...but i will say, i'm surprised rose didn't move up a lot more. oly very easily handled texas and rose was within one jam of winning their game vs oly.

i guess, really, it just shows that the top teams could pretty easily shake up on any given day. as one example, the three teams above us (philly) beat us in the last jam or in OT. games that close really are a coin toss.

i love that there are no givens in this sport.

Here's a thought.

violet wrote:

...but i will say, i'm surprised rose didn't move up a lot more. oly very easily handled texas and rose was within one jam of winning their game vs oly.

Compare Oly's game in that first bout against Rose City against their game in the bout that followed. One was the first bout since Nationals, the other wasn't. Maybe something "clicked" between Friday and Saturday?

Which isn't to say that Rose City didn't play fantastically the whole weekend.

Styles make fights?

Poobah wrote:

Compare Oly's game in that first bout against Rose City against their game in the bout that followed. One was the first bout since Nationals, the other wasn't. Maybe something "clicked" between Friday and Saturday?

Which isn't to say that Rose City didn't play fantastically the whole weekend.

Rose seemed to play Oly with a certain street fighting intensity (It's the national champs after all) and I saw some hits that bordered on extralegal, e.g., one football block on I think Deadly Aim that really sent her flying. I believe the style got under Oly skin a bit, threw off their focus and caused them to retaliate and incur a greater than usual (at least more than they did on avg at the westerns and the nationals) number of penalties. They obviously recouped it the next day in their bout against Philly with a lot of sound team blocking play, but also to my eyes, Philly played more of a crisper blocking scheme with less of the extra curricular stuff which I think had the effect of not encouraging retaliation on Oly's part.

On the other hand, Oly coulda just shook off the track rust and yea Rose City did kick ass that weekend.

are you kidding me? with

are you kidding me? with femme fatale on oly's roster? she is the undisputed queen of penalties. sorry...make that the undisputed queen of intentional penalties. watch her and it is obvious with elbows but the skate-clicking to make a player fall is, well, despicable.

Really great job DNN. This is

Really great job DNN. This is no easy task. Thanks for giving us fans something to chew over.

I agree about depth of bench. But. It should be pointed out. That Duke City and Bay Area were both missing very key players. Duke was missing muffin who usually scores half of their points. Bay Area Derby was missing (by my count, at least) Brawlling Angel, Burlybot, Taxi Scab, Sassy Slayer and jane Hammer. That is a big chunk out of that roster. I think had bay Area been able to field at least two of those missing skaters they would have done better.

You are right that one skater usually doesn't make that much of a difference but I think when that skater is muffin for duke City or those skaters are the above listed for Bay Area Derby, then it does indeed make a huge difference. and those are two very different teams without those players.

Case in point - Rocky mtn without deRanged. The third place bout would ahve been a very different one with Deranged in it.

Life is Hard

Just one time, I'm going to say something about this whole Rocky Mountain without DeRanged stuff. Denver lost their top jammer, Sheila Tack, because of emergency surgery to repair a detached retina the Tuesday before regionals began. She had to retire because of it. Yet, no one is rambling on about what if scenarios because we lost our best jammer (permanently). Instead, we gave the opportunity to Natalie "Vinyl Trax" Meagher who played tremendously at regionals and then at nationals with a trashed shoulder. No one was the wiser.

I have tons of respect for DeRanged's ability and always have. But, there's something to be said for building a TEAM; one that doesn't rely on one or two players to be successful.

Please reread my post. i

as I said, i agree that a team is about more than one payer. depth of bench is serious. But anyone who says that rocky Mtn is the same team without Deranged is delusional. Sames goes for Gotham without Bonnie thunders. there are certain players who ARE game changers. you can go on and on and on claiming that a team is more than one person and that is mostly true but the lakers are not the same team without kobe bryand and the same goes for Rocky. I give rocky a lot of credit for being a great team. they are strong with or without Deranged. They have a tremendous bench. But deranged changes games. This is not meant whatsoever to knock the depth of Rocky or to say that Rocky isnt amazing without Deranged.

but you are really telling me duke city is the same team without muffin? or that bay area is the same team without five of their veteran allstars?

They are saying that Depth matters

The point is that the stronger team will not be as affected by a "game changer" being out, because on a stronger/deeper team, all their skaters would be game changers. A DeRanged level skater on Oly, not that big a game changer as there would be 4 or 5 other skaters to step up and make the plays that are not made by Deranged when she's out. When that skater is significantly more effective than the average skater on the team, like Duke and Muffin or Grand Raggidy when they had Jackie Daniels, it is a little more impactful overall to lose that one skater. You can't have it both ways, either the skater is a game changer for that team, meaning games played without them have significantly different outcomes than they otherwise would, or they are a deep team, and can adjust to the loss of one or even several skaters because there is not a large jump in skill or effectiveness between one or two skaters and the rest of the team and not see significantly impacted outcomes for those games.

If the team is really reliant on just one or two players, they are not as strong as they could be, and shouldn't be ranked as highly, generally speaking. (not specifically at any one team here, I think DNN is pretty right on.) It's just a pain to see the whole "if we'd had so and so playing" card pulled after a loss or a too-close win. I am glad that it is beign considered this year, but depth should be a greater factor than the abilities of a single or even a few superstar players.

Rose and Rat clearly worked

Rose and Rat clearly worked their butts off after regionals. they both looked incrediblyy strong.

um hats of to philly though for traveling west to take on Rose, Rat, Oly. That is a mean 1-2-3 punch. Thought Philly played great. They will gel more with their new additions and strategy too. Teflon Donna is one of my faves and I'm sure many agree with me on that.

Apples to Apples?

I'm a little surprised that you gave so much credit to Rose's 2 point squeaker over Philly. Rose had over 19 hours rest from the previous day's laugher over B.A.D., while Philly had only 2 1/2 hours to rest after a to-the-last-jam battle with Rat. Had both teams been equally rested I wonder if the result would have been the same.

re: Apples to Apples?

Aitchbee wrote:

I'm a little surprised that you gave so much credit to Rose's 2 point squeaker over Philly. Rose had over 19 hours rest from the previous day's laugher over B.A.D., while Philly had only 2 1/2 hours to rest after a to-the-last-jam battle with Rat. Had both teams been equally rested I wonder if the result would have been the same.

I was thinking the same thing, but I believe DNN was looking more at how well Rose fared against Oly, vs how well Philly played against Oly: Rose lost by 8, Philly by 66.

Missing Players

I believe that Brawllen Angel is retired and both Sassy Slayher and Taxi Scab will not be playing on the TT this year for personal reasons. Those three girls will not be on the roster this year for BADG and should not be considered as part of the "missing skaters." Burly Bot and Jane Hammer, on the other hand, should still totally be considered and they were sorely missed last weekend.

Sorry, this is supposed to be

Sorry, this is supposed to be in a reply thread to WOWSk8er's comment

clover cup

Wondering how the showing of Atlanta against both Dallas and Houston shakes this up a bit already...

And Nashville

Suddenly that 35 point win over Atlanta last month is looking a lot better. More triangulation nightmares in our near future, looks like.

Naptown

thanks for the nod to Naptown. xoxo

WHAT??? IT'S AN OUTRAGE I

WHAT??? IT'S AN OUTRAGE I TELL YOU!!!

correction

Charm City will next face River City Roller Girls (Richmond, VA) on 3/14/10 in a closed sanctioned bout.

Its only going to get harder

... as we progress... just like our benches are getting deeper, so is our skill level as a sport. Someday you'll have to play the (future date) equivalent of top 10 level derby to even break into a top 25 rank, I think. I mean, it was once easy to pick which leagues had teams at the tippy top, then there was a gap and you had a fairly different skill level from say 8-15... and then another gap between the teams below that. Now every team that hits top 10 seems to get a flush of hot transfers of the best players on middling leagues...

I was blown away at WWS by two things: how a team can storm in and surprise a lot of people by almost taking out what's considered an undisputed top team - talking about Rose, who have ALWAYS been great but have never been able to beat the greatest when they had the opportunity... and Oly who won by a lot at Nationals so that it seemed like they had the Gotham glow on them (remembering last year when Gotham seemed so completely unbeatable that hardly anyone could even come close). Then here comes Rose within one good jam of beating Oly.

And then the other thing was how my personal definition of a blowout is changing. I might be in the minority here, but a 60 point loss doesn't seem as huge to me as it once did. I saw teams with far greater differentials that didn't seem THAT far apart in skill level, and it blew me away. I feel like its evidence that our game - how we play it, I mean, is getting so much SMARTER... and teams are looking to see what works - found it! Now kill, kill, kill! (as opposed to just being better skaters or faster or having better endurance). Its alarming and sort of great and horrible at the same time how fast a game can get out of hand. High-scoring jams are making for wider point spreads even in games that LOOK fairly even to watch.

And "blowouts" aren't as hard to watch as they once were, either. Both teams can still be playing good derby and one just isn't scoring - BAD vs Rocky, for example. BAD clearly suffered from NOT having their usual deep jammer bench, for sure. And Rocky jammers are OUTSTANDING at maximizing differentials and just not letting opposing jammers score at all. That was a 1-2 punch that meant a HUGE scoring gap. But it used to be that a blowout meant (a lot of times), one teams jammers skating laps while her blockers made the other team look the fool... not so much now... BAD still gave Rocky some bruises, and some great players hit the floor...

I'm just babbling, sorry - its my lunch hour

Having Rally's for lunch... yes, there are still some Rally's...

"How can that be the score? There is no way they are up by 60 points!"

heard in the stands over the last year or so, frequently... very competitive bouts are getting lopsided scores more often nowadays... big jams and strategy... it appears to be a lot like watching a fight where one guy is aggressive, throwing bombs and occasionally connecting while the other combatant is scoring with jabs, counter punches and occasional, well timed big hits... the latter wins big every time on the judges cards but the bout was very competitive (and fun to watch)...
Congrats to the SD Hard Corps for their road victory in Silicon Valley and of course congrats to the SDDD BT All-Stars (and guests) for their March Radness victory over the LADD and Pals... it got very quiet in the Doll Factory towards the end of this bout when the outcome was inevitable... made me smile... heh heh heh... so looking forward to Battle on the Banks III...

and, as always, when Ivanna speaks... I listen. As should anyone in or just into derby... her knowledge is vast...

Go SDDD, best of luck this month against The Sirens and have a great bout in Cincy...

the sad part

is that it will probably even get harder just to get the games you need to be able to potentially beat someone at the top, too....

Since there are no comments

Since there are no comments on the Power Rankings intro page, I'll explain a part of it here.

"In the original Power Rankings FAQ, we indicated that we'd consider bouts played on any track geometry, under any strictly and consistently enforced written ruleset. Experience (particularly Cincinnati's recent bitraxual experience in San Diego) has shown that different rulesets -- or more to the point, differential experience with a given ruleset -- really does render those results apples and oranges, no matter how much the rulesets may have in common."

Since I was part of that conversation, I remember the conclusion that only WFTDA regulation games *could* be considered for apples to apples comparison. The only level playing field we know of at this time. So this is NOT a change in policy, but has always been the policy. There was a "wait and see" footnote to see if a change of policy would be considered in the future.

I think the truth is that "wait and see" is still applicable. We just may be waiting a long time for the number of interleague games outside of SDDD and LADD, and their hybrid inter-intra league system, to chalk up the numbers. It's going to take time for the experience base to expand to the point where the disparities in track surface are less of a problem. It's certainly "apples to oranges" right now and in the short term future.

I've got a whole article I could write about the challenges and how to face them in a "bitraxual" derby movement. I don't think they're being met yet, but I think the groundwork for meeting them is laid down. Until it moves from its current experimental stage to applied science of sorts, banked and flat track results simply aren't at an interchangeable level yet.

Level playing field

Bustaarmov wrote:

...level playing field...

Ba dum dum tschh!

Tee hee.

gnosis wrote:
Bustaarmov wrote:

...level playing field...

Ba dum dum tschh!

Yeah seriously. Throw that level in the trash.

OK, wait a second. I do have somewhere in my tool grip a laser level (it actually works terribly) that can shoot the laser at a 45° angle. I think that only works for the "high center" banked tracks of the early 50s and before?

Jerry switched to smaller portable banked tracks with less of a pitch sometime between 1956 and 1959 to make touring easier. I suppose I should just ask him about this stuff, it's not like he's reluctant to provide details. Unlike rules changes, I can't determine exactly when this stuff happened by way of looking at old programs. Tracks of the day were probably a "trade secret" which kept competitors from entering the business, and most of what got revealed about them was in promotional materials.

Bank Track Power Rankings?

Hey DNN - why not bank track only power rankings? which would of course include flat track team that choose to play bank (cough cough - Legit?)

the pitch of bank is no different than comparing cement to sport court to rink floor to wood floor

Already answered, mostly

We halfway addressed that in the intro article for this month's rankings:

The WFTDA ruleset is currently used in more than 98% of modern roller derby competitions. Going forward, we will only consider WFTDA-rules bouts for Power Rankings. Should another ruleset gain a significant user base (say, season-long use by a dozen or more teams in interleague bouts), we will revisit this stance.

By this, we don't mean that we'd include those teams in the same set of rankings, due to the apples and oranges factors described elsewhere in the article. We mean that we *might* consider creating a separate set of rankings if another mode of derby reaches that critical mass.

Because, you know, this time of the month isn't already painful enough for us :)

Who needs banked track power rankings?

... when every competitive banked track team has a shot at playing in a tournament once a year for the title? It makes sense to rank teams when there's no way they could all play each other. But right now our pool of really competitive teams willing to play on the banked track is pretty shallow. Here's hoping it gets deeper and deeper. A little bird (who works at the desk next to mine) was telling me there could be some surprises at Battle of the Banked this year... super competitive flat track teams tired of hearing banked track is harder have been expressing interest. HELL YES!

I have fingers and toes and everything else crossed that one of them comes through. I SWEAR banked track is not harder - just a little different. And the rules differences are mostly negligible, though there are areas ::cough, last jam, cough:: that need work for sure. I think its maybe a little more different than sport court to rink to wood - but I'm with Sara P - its just not that much different!!!

Hah, as a banked track

Hah, as a banked track skater, I think flat track is way harder. I've been bitching to my leaguemates for the past month how hard I think flat is. Grass is always greener, right? You know what you know and fear the unknown but good derby skaters adjust remarkably well.

Personally, one of the best skaters I've ever seen skate on our banked track is Sadistic Sadie when she skated with Team Awesome in the first Battle of the Bank. So ya know, if you're as good as Sadie, you'll have no trouble on the banked!

Critical Mass spread

I'm wondering if the high cost of real estate in some cities (particularly in some of the bigger cities) and the lack of available spaces for bouting (which in many cities have been bogarted by flat track) make bank track challenging for a critical mass spread in the absence of massive financing from outside sources--this was an issue sonofapreacherman brought up in a thread about starting up bank track. These deep pocketed outside sources will probably demand ownership of the teams and decision making power over the ruleset which could have the effect of changing the game into something other than what the skaters intend the game to be.

Banked Track vs. Skate Court

Considering the material cost and setup time involving skate court, I'm not sure that your argument holds true. I'm not an expert on the costs and setup time for each surface, but my impression is that they're pretty close to identical.

My guess is that it's a matter of choice, even if it's influenced by the predominant track layout of today.

Moolah could still be a impediment in the big cities

Apron wrote:

Considering the material cost and setup time involving skate court, I'm not sure that your argument holds true. I'm not an expert on the costs and setup time for each surface, but my impression is that they're pretty close to identical.

My guess is that it's a matter of choice, even if it's influenced by the predominant track layout of today.

I recall reading arguments in our threads that a league in some cases had to own the facility they set the bank track up in. I believe that owning a facility or finding a large enough space at a reasonable rent to set up a huge bank track in the bigger cities where the real estate costs are through the stratosphere is a very challenging proposition, particularly in some cities where the flat track leagues have to struggle to find places to bout.

Gotham, Bay Area, what cha thinkin.

I notice you aren't saying

I notice you aren't saying "LA" or "SD", because you know how things went there. They made it happen. Because they wanted to.

BT/FT considerations.

CynicalGuy wrote:

I recall reading arguments in our threads that a league in some cases had to own the facility they set the bank track up in. I believe that owning a facility or finding a large enough space at a reasonable rent to set up a huge bank track in the bigger cities where the real estate costs are through the stratosphere is a very challenging proposition, particularly in some cities where the flat track leagues have to struggle to find places to bout.

I don't believe that a Skate Court type surface costs as much as a new banked track does. It's possible that you could obtain ONE banked track for the cost of two Skate Court type surfaces, but let's consider a few things. Flat surfaces are more likely to become available used. And probably easier to sell off down the road if the need arises.

Let's say someone puts up a sports park type place out in the burbs and the place goes under for whatever reason. There's a surface for sale. Maybe even to the derby league that had been their tenant?

For a banked track they either talk to Kitty Traxx, buy an old one from a dead promotion (and some of those have issues), or they download the late-1960s plans and try to build one themselves (at least one of the ones built this way reportedly had issues, possibly due to improvised materials used).

Consider that those "classic" plans were probably done up by someone who's long since dead. There ARE a number of retired skaters out there with the track knowledge to steer people in the right direction (promoters would pay them extra money to do build-ups and tear-downs). Many of them aren't fond of the direction today's derby has taken and there are fewer and fewer of them left alive as time goes on.

A league renting its own facility for flat track derby can get the facility first, and skate on the concrete until it finds the right price and time to buy a surface. A banked track league kind of has to skate flat track until they raise the scratch to get their track. Consider also that there may be fewer buyers for that track down the road if the league folds. And that who ever winds up with the track after that happens has to pay to store the thing until it is sold.

Also consider that flat surfaces are probably a fair bit quicker and easier to assemble and disassemble.

CynicalGuy wrote:

Gotham, Bay Area, what cha thinkin.

Gotham has a facility they lease 24/7. There is ONE roller rink left in NYC to my knowledge (maybe the one at Coney Island is still open?). It's my vague understanding that it's either too small or too difficult to get to (I'm wanting to say it's on Staten Island). They also have two sets of Sport Court/Skate Court. One for the "Crash Pad," and the other for their bouts.

Bay Area Derby Girls I believe practices in Oakland.

There is a banked track league (the "pro derby" kind) in the Bay Area. To my knowledge they haven't had a year-round practice space in quite some time there. One might imagine that the cost of renting the facility is a good part of why that is the case.

Here's the thing though. If Gotham Girls hit some hard financial times tomorrow, they could theoretically sell off one surface and switch to a rec center somewhere. I'm not saying that would be easy for them to do, but easier for them to do as a flat track league than if they went banked.

Another thing to consider: A flat track league has hundreds of possible opponents who are accustomed to the available surfaces, with a lot of choices as to competitive plateaus to compete against. Some of those leagues may have skating rinks they practice at, others have facilities of their own. All have the same sized track except six or seven?

A banked track league has less than ten potential opponents, so it's harder to find someone at your own level to compete against. They can go up against a flat track team, but odds are that'd turn into a bit of a slaughter much of the time? All those leagues have facilities to pay for, higher venue costs (thanks to their set-up time), the original cost of the track, etc. Which may be why they have so few interleague bouts.

Kitty's tracks are all the same size, classic derby tracks came in varying sizes (all seem to have adjustable lengths, BTW). Up until fairly recently the rules were all over the place with banked derby. There is still a larger contingent of those skating "non-standard" rules than in the flat track world. One league skating the standardized rules doesn't skate them at home.

This isn't an anti-banked track screed by any means, but there are realities you need to consider.

Pretty much, but until

Quote:

My guess is that it's a matter of choice, even if it's influenced by the predominant track layout of today.

Pretty much, but until recently if you wanted to build a banked track, who would you even have contacted? These days, James Jones has dedicated himself in that "off hours" derby way to getting more tracks built, and has four of them under his belt. http://www.kittentraxx.com/goingbanked.htm He's not the least bit equivocal, but if you want a banked track, you want one that's designed with detailed documentation at every level by a fanatic.

The derby world of 2010 isn't the same as the derby world of 2006. It's a world with many more possibilities. You don't have to have a banked track to put together a banked track team, and some leagues that do have banked tracks have a pretty strong commitment to flat track competition.

I think it's a combination of choice, the predominant track layout and exposure. Forming a roller derby league is a pretty significant dream. Adding a banked track to that dream is practically insanity if you've never even skated on a banked track. If you've been at it for awhile, it's natural to go with what you already know. At least these days, there are ample opportunities to "try before you buy" when it comes to banked track. That certainly wasn't true a few years ago.

All you need are skaters...

...for flat track. You can add everything else later - after parties, rules, refs, fans, real estate, sponsors, websites, strategy, more leagues, different surfaces, banks.... I can't wait until the game is bi-directional (ccw and cw) with a coin-toss to determine the first half direction and switching at the 2nd half.

cheers,
Mr. Juice

If there's a will there might be a way, but

Poobah wrote:

Gotham has a facility they lease 24/7. There is ONE roller rink left in NYC to my knowledge (maybe the one at Coney Island is still open?). It's my vague understanding that it's either too small or too difficult to get to (I'm wanting to say it's on Staten Island). They also have two sets of Sport Court/Skate Court. One for the "Crash Pad," and the other for their bouts.

Bay Area Derby Girls I believe practices in Oakland.

There is a banked track league (the "pro derby" kind) in the Bay Area. To my knowledge they haven't had a year-round practice space in quite some time there. One might imagine that the cost of renting the facility is a good part of why that is the case.

If the facilities are lacking as they are in NYC--there's a little skate rink in coney that I don't believe is large enough--then it's highly doubtful--plus I could imagine setup and teardown of a bank track at an existing facility like Hunter College would be a gigantic headache, not to mention other potential bureaucratic hurtles (maybe they could try the PAL in Yonkers?) Plus NYC is much more built up and dense without the sprawl and space of some of the southern california cities--I could imagine that what few warehouse/athletic facility locations are available in the nyc area are either difficult for the fans and skaters to reach via mass transit, e.g. the flatlands brooklyn sports facility, or waiting for a kings ransom from a developer to build apartments or a big box store. Considering the cost of doing business in the Bay Area, I'm not surprised that even long time bank trackers like the Bombers have probably been unable to get a year round practice space.

Harumph

This calls to mind the vert vs street arguments of skateboarders in the 80s.

Both are fun!