The Grand Rapids Press has some good coverage this weekend of the production process for the forthcoming roller derby movie Whip It!, featuring members of the Grand Raggidy Roller Girls with various roles in the film:
News story featuring Jackie Daniels and Dot Matrix.
Vindicator provides a peek behind the scenes into her experience as an extra.
DNN hasn't covered Whip It! very much, as our beat is primarily the action of the sport itself, but we're definitely keeping an eye on the ways the movie interacts with the sport. We've already seen the profound impact of a cable series on the sport's growth; one can only imagine that a Drew Barrymore/Ellen Page major motion picture will make a substantially greater splash. These news stories offer reassurance that the production is taking pains to represent the modern sport with some accuracy, and we'll be attentive for more indications of its direction.
EDIT: The Girl from the Ghetto offers another extra's view.
AND ANOTHER: Article about Atlanta's Sk8 Outta Compton, who is the on-skates double for Eve in the film.
I wonder....
One of the blogs mentions "Fight Scenes" in the movie. I wonder how this will effect the sport, as the sport itself is trying to get away from that "image".
Will the release of the movie attract fans wanting to see fights?
welll...
The book/movie was written about derby a couple years ago. Its not the MOST modern of version of roller derby, its definitely not flat track, where fighting is either frowned upon or downright illegal. :/ Also, I don't follow banked track that closely so I can't say whether or not anyone in banked track still fights. Anyway, if people buy tickets thinking there's going to be a fight, I don't think they'll be disappointed with everything else we have to offer.
Anna
Boston Massacre: The pantsless wonders of Massachusetts
No Cage Fights here......
I must say that I've seen a new type of sports fan at the bouts. They are beginning to understand the actual sport, and thus become repeat business, hence crowds are getting larger and larger. I've also had the "yayhoos" who yell out "Hey Moose! When we gonna see a Cage Fight?". Literally! They said that! I have to be cordial with them, and edjumacate them on how this is A REAL SPORT!
Glass half empty today
I'm pessimistic about the effect the film will have on people's impressions and expectations of roller derby. The impact of the TV show on derby fashion and imagery was profound, to the point of ubiquitous cliché as so many leagues continue to caricature the blueprint of TXRD c.2004, sans the banked track. Now it's starting to sound like we're going to have an even higher-profile vehicle portraying derby once again as solely a banked-track spectacle. Will it also depict the sport as consisting mainly of boozing, brawling women decked out in fishnets who fling each other over railings in front of weird "punk" audiences and/or the intoxicated working class? It's starting to sound like that. Despite the assurances that Drew Barrymore is being respectful of the sport, I really don't have any expectation that this film is going to make derby look like anything less than an exotic circus. However I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Maybe it won't be so bad.
re: Glass half empty today
I don't think I'm as pessimistic as you about it, but I am a bit bummed about the track thing. It makes sense, given it's coming out of LADD and Shauna Cross. But the fact remains that fans of the movie are going to show up for their first live bout and say "where's the track?", even though 99% of all derby nowadays is played on the floor. I hope they can get over it and learn to love flat track too.
I am, though, very happy that our favorite sport has grown back up the to level where it warrants a feature film starring Hollywood's A-list. That fucking rocks.
Does the track surface REALLY matter?
Being of a somewhat bi-trackual nature, I gotta say some flat trackers commenting here are letting their insecurities show. :)
A&E's show did nothing but improve the sport by inspiring women across the nation to see that there's something out there going on that's not as vapid and shallow as Linsay Lohan or Britney Spears flashing their cootchies to the world.
The fact that the show featured a banked track league certainly didn't deter flat track leagues from popping up just about everywhere.
SO WHAT if the movie features a banked track? Guess who's skating on that track? Predominantly FLAT TRACK skaters!! And guess who will benefit from the attention? EVERY LEAGUE OUT THERE, both banked and flat! So get ready to see the attendance at your local league's bouts spike up and up and up next year because of the movie!
Can I just say again HOW DAMN SICK I AM of hearing flat *vs.* banked track derby as opposed to just playing DERBY?!?!?!?!?! Yes, there are physical differences in playing flat compared to playing banked, but are the philosophies of DIY derby whether it's flat or banked REALLY that different? I don't think so.
So stop being scurrrrred of the banked track. It's fun. Any skater visiting LA, San Diego or Austin can find out for themselves by stopping by and giving it a whirl. We won't bite...unless you ask us to.
TARA ARMOV #51
LA Derby Dolls
That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story
SD vs. LA Flat Track Rematch??
So Tara...with all of that in mind, when are we going to see you down here in San Diego for a LA vs. SD flat track rematch? Maybe you'll play this time? I hope so.
;)
Steely Jan
SDDD
Not Up to Me
Rosters for such things are waaaayyyyyyy beyond my control, Steely. But I have no doubt that a rematch with SD will kick major ass no matter what!
TARA ARMOV #51
LA Derby Dolls
That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story
Amen
Just for the record, except for the 2nd and 3rd generation derby skaters, all of the classic skaters started on a flat track. For Decades there were no more than 4 banked tracks on the entire planet, so where else could they have learned except on a flat surface until they hit the pro training? While I have my own bias in favor of bank (feels faster, feels better, looks professional, looks better/more unique) any top 2D skater can transition. Since 2D is cheaper, then play all the derby you can, where you can on whatever you can.
Who's insecure?
Nobody here criticized banked track; you're preaching to the choir. We were just lamenting how the sport is about to get another round of wide exposure, but it's apparently going to be done in a way that still won't represent what 98% of fans will actually see when they go check out their first bout. Audience surveys at my local flat-track bouts are still generating "I thought this was going to be on a banked track" expressions of disappointment from people who are underwhelmed by what they perceive to be low production values. It's reasonable to expect a movie will portray things to be a bit more glamorous than in real life, but it could have the effect of reinforcing the stereotypes that we're all railing against.
Surveys, schmurveys...
If whatever league an audience member goes to has a good, exciting game with skilled skaters, that audience member isn't going to give a rat's ass whether there's a bank on that track or not for very long.
Just because "Whip It" is using banked track as its basis for the skating won't mean that flat track won't continue to benefit from the roller derby angle in general. It worked when "Rollergirls" came out, why would it be different this time?
I'd be more worried about how other aspects of the sport will be portrayed by the film, not what angle the track the skaters are using is.
TARA ARMOV #51
LA Derby Dolls
That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story
Production values. There is
Production values.
There is a lot a league can do to make a venue look high class and professional etc, but without some major cash outlays flat track will always look like a low production value when compared to banked track. Banked track was designed to increase speed, safety and (this is the relevant part) be visually unique. Its not all that dissimilar from certain baseball stadiums being viewed well and others being viewed as "lesser than".
That said, minor league parks have become great venues for games and have laid out some impressive productions. 2d can do the same and in many places I suspect are already doing it.
As for stereotypes everyone is railing against, I will not touch upon the irony of railing against stereotypes one feels diminishes the sport while at the same time encouraging things that make it look less sports like. Except of course, I just did.
Damn straight
"That said, minor league parks have become great venues for games and have laid out some impressive productions. 2d can do the same and in many places I suspect are already doing it."
Minnesota
Carolina
Portland & Cincinnati also have some amazing venues, though I can't readily find pictures that really show them off.
JFM
Very good points
Very good points 'Preacherman! I truly believe however that Flat-track as a part of it's incredible growth will "upgrade" to better and more professional facilities as time goes on. I also believe that as ticket sales and fan support grows that some leagues will spring for Banked tracks. I love the SPEED of Banked-track Derby!!
Venues and professional looks
Justice did a great job with those pictures of showing leagues that made the most out of the least. The biggest reason roller derby was controlled by a handful of promoters was because they were willing to spend the money. This 2D movement has found a way to do a version of the game while minimizing costs. With tehcnology what it is today, I would not be a tad surprised to see more and more teams/leagues using technology to create that sense of professionalism, at least in terms of highlight reels, musical presentations, use of space etc.
I must concur with Biker Dave. While there are many good things to be said about any organization, whenever I see high praise spent on the "virtues" of flat track, I am ready to vomit. Not because flat track has no value (far from it) or that its a lesser game (smaller does not mean lesser, no matter what I may think of the ruleset), but because they gloss over the number 1 reason for doing flat track. Its cheaper. Period. If you can afford a 3d track, you get a 3d track. Period. When a 100% straight professional league gets done, it will be done on a banked track. That is the look that hooks, so to speak. But I should probably not go into my views on what a successful professional roller derby will look like, as I may get flamed forever.
As a fan i love the speed and look of the banked track. As a skater I love the speed, look, and the greater safety.
But... But...
This just came up between me and my wife this past weekend. When she first got involved with flat-track, I had a hunger for watching banked track derby. After watching it as a kid, I thought that's what made derby, derby. However, this past weekend, I had an epiphany, realizing I genuinely loved flat-track now. Even more so than watching banked. I genuinely enjoy the flat-track derby more now. What can I say, it grows on ya, and quite frankly, it's easier to watch. A playing field that is a concave bowl, tilting away from the crowd seating, doesn't make for much of a spectator sport.
I think you genuinely love
I think you genuinely love it because you watch it more AND you realize that save for some rules changes, its essentially the same game.
As for banked not making much of a spectator sport, well, there is about 73 years of history that says otherwise. You position the track right and you can sell it. My god, they got 50K place into Comiskey park and no one was close to the track at all for that game nor for 35k they had at Shea.
I like the idea of teams and leagues owning their own buildings/ venues, so they can configure the tracks with optimum views. Twere I to start a professional league, one of my many conditions for every team would be that they must own their own facility ( or have very long term leases) so that no one has to move those bloddy tracks and find more venues. Shoot for venues that can hold no more than 5K for a start, no more because it will look empty. Of course, I would also require a relationship with local Derby programs. Not necessarily ownership, but providing a way to keep leagues afloat, develop talent, and maintain a presence.
Hmm i should stop now before I blow my whole business plan
ch-ching
$$$
Best of luck! Seriously. I love the production. It's half of why I'm involved. I love improving the bout experience for the fan. We're working to keep a consistent 900-1000 right now in our local market, so I can't even fathom owning or long-term leasing a building right now at a full price per sq. ft. rate.
P.S.
In our Memphis league, creative uses of technology is what makes the House of Bruise (old fairgrounds building) our little piece of entertainment paradise. Without these technologies, I couldn't imagine trying to compete with pro sports for fans.
And yes Justice, the Roy Wilkins Auditorium in Minnesota is ridiculous!
I recently traveled to Birmingham, AL for a bout in their new home and it's just amazing! It's about a 1,200 seater Shriners temple with more than half of that seating in a mezzanine. The building on the outside looks like the place a "boss" would live at the end of a video game, and there is a "Christmas tree icicle" chandelier, roughly 15' in circumference that hangs over the center of the track. Bizarre, yet so fitting for any derby atmosphere.
http://zamora-dsc.tripod.com/ZAMORA/Zamora01.jpg
http://www.wrestlebirmingham.com/Images/ZamoraTempleLg1.jpg
Don't even get me started on Big Easy's venue
That place is/was freaking amazing. This picture really doesn't capture half of it.
http://flickr.com/photos/jonnodotcom/276725338/
-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Sin City Stat Pack
Fabulous Sin City Rollergirls
Oh Yes ...
I can't believe I forgot about Nawlins! The floats are amazing.
no
"If you can afford a 3d track, you get a 3d track. Period."
Um no, you're living in a different era.
Holly Gohardly
Charm City Roller Girls
Not to knock Holly
I may be FROM a different era, but I live in NOW. And now does not mean that you ignore everything before you or disrespect it. I am well aware of the popularity of the 2D movement, but there are numerous reasons why, if its financially feasible to get a banked track, you get one. Just like, if you can afford uniforms, you use them. If you can afford great announcers, you use them. if you can afford creating mechandise, you do it. if you can afford pyro, you use it. Now some of this comes down to money, some of it comes down to appeal (which I suppose equals money) and some of it comes down to safety. If I could put my skaters on masonite instead of sports courts, wood or concrete (none of which are designed to protect the athletes), I would do it without hesitation.
This new wave derby growth has been nice to see. I do not think its just some trendy thing that will fade out in a year or two or three. But at a certain point, there are going to be some historical and financial realities that will have a tremendous impact on the whole DIY aspect of the sport and people can either get ahead of the curve or behind it. Clinging to ideas for the sake of keeping it "la cosa nostra" just will not do, as many an old-timer learned or should have learned. Places like San Diego obviously have the best of both worlds with a facilty allowing for both banked and flat. Ideally, every league should try to find such a situation.
While I see people constantly saying they love seeing this grow and even hope for TV exposure and professional leagues, it ignores that in the entire history of mankind there has not been one successful player owned and run professional league. Ever. Its the owners who provide the cash and once someone with the money decides he or she wants to pull it together, they will want the best product they can put up and yes, skaters will follow. Like the current wave tries to exploit roller derby history and its familiarity with the public, so will whoever this new batch of investors are. if wise, they will run a straight game, but will certainly add entertainment factors where it fits. They will also "thin the herd" so to speak by using the best skaters available in eye-catching outfits, but promote it to the mainstream and not a cult following. That will mean cleaning up the innuendos, simplifying the game, and providing a major league look. Look beyond where you are and look to where you are going. I do not understand why there is such an animosity from many regarding using a banked track. if you like skating on the 2D then by all means go ahead, but do not hate on the banked track just because its not part of "your thing"
nobody's hating on the banked track
But what the DIY modern derby community really has no patience at all for is being told "you're doing it wrong." That's what gets people bristling.
Much of what you have to say may have a lot of merit, but that doesn't mean this group of people will hew to the guidance you offer without trying, for themselves, other options. Some of these may have failed in the past, but that does not necessarily mean they cannot work today. They may very well not; and if so, well, derby skaters spend a lot of time getting knocked down and popping *right* back up and trying something else. Works as well off the track as on.
--
I am friends with a number of modern banked track skaters, and I think you know me well enough to understand that what I say below isn't criticism, just my honest observations. I still love you guys... I'm just reporting on what I'm witnessing.
In the keynote at RollerCon 07, Jerry Seltzer made this observation: at the National Roller Derby League's peak growth, the sport had six teams with a total of 83 skaters. Today's sport is at least 100 times bigger on both counts, and the growth curve shows no sign of stopping.
I would posit that this growth is occuring, indeed is *possible*, only because modern derby established that a large, fixed asset, and the dedicated space required for it, is not at all necessary to play the sport. Any hard flat surface will do, and because of it, leagues and teams spring up faster than we can count, in rinks, community centers, even among children at schools!
Removing the capital asset requirement was like removing the sprinkler from the charcoal grill.
I'm not arguing the merits of one geometry over another for the quality of competition -- all I'm saying is that by removing the capital requirement, roller derby is now accessible as a mass-market sport. Anyone can play, and it looks like they're going to. The banked track is a vestigial tail, an appendix, the ostrich's wing of roller derby. Skate it, enjoy it, love it if you can, but please don't mourn its passing if the *sport* flourishes in its absence.
I would concur that that
I would concur that that economic model for growth was good in fact I mentioned an earlier post was the very reason for its growth. I commended them for it as well. I also stated that any professional league would be best served by supporting the 2D movement (or even amateur banked) because the pool of talent is now greater than ever before. In the old days, you had to move to LA, SF, Chicago or New York to get a shot at the game. That required an enormous sacrifice for people in 47 other states who wanted to play and that just was not reasonable. As i have oft repeated, if there was choice between banked track and flat, i choose banked. if between flat or no derby, I choose flat. if given all my druthers, I would choose both forms in every city in the nation on a seasonal schedule.
I am doubtful that I will ever mourn the passing of banked track, as it will not die. It will be on life support sometimes, but it still survives. Neither am I anticipating, hoping for nor encouraging the demise of 2D. The sport grows, which is excellent and if I could play it on the playground with other local kids in the 70s then I am not surprised that it can be done now. What I was saying was a definite reaction to people who seem to have major problem with banked. I have more complaints about the predominant 2D rule set than I will ever have about the surfaces.
What I am concerned about is that one day, someone with the bankroll WILL decide to use the popularity to make a league and will be able to attain wide exposure. If they follow the Seltzer, Griffiths Model its' doomed. If they follow the usual professional league model of the major sports, then the DIY and WFTDA movement becomes secondary. If, however, they are positioned well in all aspects then it increases the possibilities that the moneybags will not see them as competition, but as valuable resources and partners (though the odds of ownership viewing players as partners without a major labor dispute is historically a longshot).
It's not just about finances
If I was a league president or whatnot, and I had money sitting around and we all sat down and were given the choice between flat vs. banked- it doesn't just come down to "we can afford a banked track, etc", there are a lot of other aspects that go into deciding what track to choose as a league.
Some examples on why a league might choose flat over banked are laid out by this WFTDA doc: http://www.wftda.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/flat_track_derby_fact_sheet.pdf
Believe me when I say I love all derby, banked or flat. And I really hope my comments aren't taken the wrong way, as in- for one track and against [in any degree] the other- but this is the internet and people will probably read and react differently no matter how I put my post-coffee rambling.
But at the moment, I also really, really love interleague play. There are so many opportunities to play against teams from all over the country [and even other countries] when you play flat. And for banked, there aren't as many today- although I am certain that day will come [we've seen Battle on the Bank, it's really only the beginning].
I'd also like to mention that I completely agree with Tara's comments- just playing DERBY and the DIY 'philosophy'. And to add to that- the whole damn derby community- which is one of the best parts if not the best part of something like Rollercon- where I skated alongside flat and banked skaters- as well as had a lot of fun and good conversations with both, and we talked derby- not tracks.
And honestly, I have heard several people mention how us "new wave derby folk" are disrespectful and ignorant of the roller derby of the last century. I have yet to meet anyone who skates who is completely unaware of "derby past" and have certainly not met anyone who sits around and disrespects it. Sure there is a good joke here and there about the flashy scripted aspects of the later years, but I hardly think that is disrespectful.
I'm wondering what you have seen specifically that you believe is disrespectful.
And while I don't skate on a banked track, I don't see it as not my "thing", I see all of it- flat and banked- as my thing- and i'm sure i'm not alone on that. San Diego is very lucky to be able to have "the best of both worlds"- and i'm sure hybrid leagues will become more popular as time goes by.
And as for the movie- I did flip flop on my feelings of "well, 98% of us are skating flat, so why feature banked?" But I quickly came to my senses and realized it does. not. matter. Tara also mentioned A&E's Rollergirls, and derby exploded after that! And it was flat track leagues that popped up. I would expect that after the movie- more of -both- will pop up. And while I skimmed through some of the blogs and articles on the movie and there were mentions of fighting, etc- well whatever. "Rollergirls" was one season on cable. I can't even imagine what a major, big budget movie featuring several major movie stars will do for "DERBY". If our league had a thousand more fans at the bouts after the movie is released- and some of them said "hey, where are all the cat fights and why is this track not banked?" then they'll either a) join rollerderbyfightingbabes for all their cat fight needs b) stay because it's the same sport and they'll realize that's what was really awesome in the first place c) not even give it a second thought and will shell out the cash for season tickets or d) will find or start up a local banked league if the different track bothers them that much or start their own league where the scales tip more towards fighting and show.
Either way, it's all good for ALL of us.
*snif*
Claudia is totally picking up what I put down.
Banked track isn't a vestigial tail, it's just but one option open to DIY skaters out there. And how happy am I to have options? SO DAMN HAPPY!
Whip It! isn't going to define DIY derby any more than DIY derby *lets* it be defined by Whip It! Which is really won't. DIY derby will do just fine, no matter what the movie does, or what the Bombers put on their local cable access channel, or what surface we all skate on.
In the end? WE ALL WIN.
TARA ARMOV #51
LA Derby Dolls
That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story
blog post
check out this blog post
http://thegirlfromtheghetto.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/my-days-as-an-extra-on-the-movie-set-of-whip-it-staring-ellen-page-and-directed-by-drew-barrymore/
http://sansfilter.blogspot.com/2008/08/whip-it-movie.html
Holly Gohardly
Charm City Roller Girls
I found the extra blogs to
I found the extra blogs to be interesting...
DDG
(Detroit)
I also find disturbing
that a certain league is already resorting to fisticuffs. I won't post it here, but if you look for highlights of the bouts this past weekend in San Francisco, there is mention of fights in the infield, and skaters being hit with "foreign objects", and of course all video taped for TV.
Blood and thunder, Moose.
Blood and thunder, Moose. Though the foreign objects idea is beyond lame.
I have always been an advocate of accepting a certain level of violence in the game. I few pushes here and there are no big deal and can be dealt with accordingly. I even think fights can be adequately dealt with in the penalty box. But, I also believe that you can not let anyone get out of hand. If you have to send someone to the box twice for fighting, then you might as well eject them. Trust me, I have seen what happens when you let someone run loose to "add color". Sooner or later, they lose sight of the game and just add color. Bill Morrissey knew how to keep it under control and it was well known that he had complete authority in referring a game to throw out any one.
eh, that's just the bombers
They're just doing what they do, they never really stopped it. It hasn't hurt us yet, and I don't think it's really going to... just kinda an asterisk of an afterthought of what classic derby was in its latter days when it went the way of pro wrestling. Nothing new here.
If they have TV, worry
If the game is straight a lil added color is not. But if they abandoned the game in favor of the spectacle (like ROller jam did) instead using spectacle to highlight the game, then its TV contract is a problem. Though not National TV it still would be a product out there, seen by many that highlights the weaknesses instead of the strengths, which no one needs. I am old school to the core, but I always agreed with Leo's hopes that the game is better straight.
sorry
Sorry, reading back that did sound kind of rude and wasn't intentional at all. I simply meant that owning a banked track once you have cash is not the end game. There are different charms to both and I kind of like where i'm at.
Holly Gohardly
Charm City Roller Girls
Your apology is accepted and...
taken in the spirit that one's tone is very hard to get across on a computer. I would hope that owning a banked track is not the end game. I would hope that filling up the arenas, turning a profit, and creating a structure that allows for long-term sustainability is the end game. I would hope that everyone on their deathbed can take some comfort in knowing the sport is still going on and strong.
The 'charm' of flat is rather lost on me because for me, growing up getting on to that banked track was like getting drafted into the NFL. You felt like you had made it. That is not to say that I think 2D sucks, because I do not. When asked to coach it, I said yes and if asked to skate it in a game I would probably drag my old bloated carcass out and do that to and I will watch any OSDA rules game on any surface. I suppose I will always see it as an economical way to play roller derby, but that is in large part based upon my own history and I recognize that bias. I am sure there are some 2ders out there who have this beef for banked because they started on 2D and drink Kool-aid on past derby being the epitome of all that was ever wrong in the universe (yes I am hyperbolizing a bit). I do stand by the safety factor though. Anyone who has ever fallen on either will tell you that masonite is safer.
This Old Broad Says
...that falling on masonite is definitely less painful than falling on the ground.
Which makes me respect flat track even more...it's harder on the ol' bod than banked track overall is. Gotta push ALL THE TIME, not just through the turns. The physics are different. It's harder on the ankles and knees. And yes, the falling. Though I likey the sport court 'cos I slide more than just face-planting into the ground.
TARA ARMOV #51
LA Derby Dolls
That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story
This old man says
Thats like saying you respect football games played on artificial turf more than those played on natural grass (though turf is less safe and makes you go faster than natural grass so perhaps i am mixing my methaphors.
I know if I was making an investment into skaters (i.e. paying them) I would want to keep them healthy as long as possible, which is why i see a professional league as going banked. Then again, there may be surface in the not too distant future that provides just that kind of safety.
I can slide on flat, but I still go for the falls on the old buttisimo to save the knees and arms.
It Ain't Just the Surface
...that's gonna keep skaters healthy, it's TRAINING that's really going to help them.
F'instance, there's been a big deal made in DIY derbyland about the recent NY Times article about girl/women athletes and their higher propensity to have knee injuries than boy/men athletes. It's just the way women are built, apparently.
One thing that helps women's knees be stronger is doing plyometrics. Leagues that do plyometrics and have good training have had the instances of knee injuries go down.
So you can say banked is safer than flat, but frankly, without the right training, that ain't gonna be the case.
TARA ARMOV #51
LA Derby Dolls
That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story
Now Tara
training is a given. No athlete can do well without it and I think the higher caliber skaters are doing it.
It is rather frightening to think about the higher percentage of ACL injuries to female athletes and I am not qualified enough to give a better reason than your "just how women are built" since that is all I can come up with myself. maybe we will have someone with a medical background explain it to us. As that NYT article is about 7 years after the initial research came out, I bet someone here is familiar with this area. I hate to see great athletes cut down because of it and unlike most of their male counterparts, women often have a variety of other factors in their lives that already shorten careers.
As for surfaces, again i was speaking from a professional viewpoint and from there its no question that protecting an investment should take precedence over financial convenience (as the Philadelphia Eagles learned not so long ago). But Masonite cuts down not only on knee injuries and ankle injuries, but coccyx, wrist and elbow injuries as well. My skaters sometimes tease me about not wearing wrist braces when I skate with them, but I point out that a) I never needed them before and dont need 'em now (the usual old dog, stuck in my way response) and b) studies show that wrist braces decrease wrist injuries b)but INCREASE injuries to elbows and forearms. Nothing is perfect, eh?