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Roller Derby World Cup Groups Set

Blood and Thunder today announced the group selection for initial pool play at the Roller Derby World Cup, taking place December 1-4 in Toronto. During the first two days, each team will play every other team in its group, with the results of group play used to determine seeding for the elimination bracket running through the remainder of the event.

For more information about how the groups were selected, view the archived video of the draw.

The groups:

Group A

Canada
Brazil
Sweden
France

Group B

Germany
Australia
Finland

Group C

USA
New Zealand
Scotland

Group D

Argentina
Ireland
England

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Do we know...?

...how the elimination bracket byes will be determined? Seems to me that 3 teams will get first-round byes and the other 10 will play each other for 5 spots in the final 8. But with 4 groups, how do you decide which 3 teams get the byes? I guess you break any ties based on points scored or margin of victory??

Super-excited to see all these teams play!!!

Full schedule soon

The full schedule for World Cup will be announced here in the coming days. Stay tuned!

My pool predictions

These are listed with the top finisher first and so forth. Basically that is all we can do right now.

Group A
Canada
Sweden
France
Brazil

Group B
Australia
Germany
Finland

Group C
USA
Scotland
New Zealand

Group D
England
Ireland
Argentina

They said in the announcement

They said in the announcement video that there are 3 teams that are already seeded. I'm assuming they'll be the ones getting byes.

1. USA
2. Canada
3. Germany

anyone know?

why Germany get's the third bye?

Byes

I can't imagine anyone will get a bye if they don't win their group. Otherwise, what's the point of group play?

I think the only point of having "seeded" teams was to make sure the teams viewed as being the "best" all started out in different groups.

Really?

Dave Wood wrote:

I think the only point of having "seeded" teams was to make sure the teams viewed as being the "best" all started out in different groups.

If the "best" teams get seeds, then why put Germany as the 3rd team? Wouldn't you think that perhaps England would get that as they have more WFTDA full membership players.

Seeds

The three seeds were indeed Germany, Canada and the USA.

This only affected the groups -- they wanted to keep the teams they viewed as the strongest apart.

Judging by Berlin's performance against London a few weeks ago, I think they'll do well... and while I too am confused about how they ended up seeded and England didn't, we got lucky and managed to avoid the seeds anyway.

Also slightly unfortunate that England end up flying several thousand miles to play their next-nearest team after Scotland (that has a number of London skaters on the squad too), but so it goes! It was going to happen to someone.

I fancy England's chances -- though wouldn't want to pick a winner in an England v Canada matchup in much the same way I wouldn't want to pick one in a London v Montreal game after their epic tussle in Baltimore!

Berlin's performance?

I think Germany will do well yes, but I'd just like to point out that Berlin played Brawl Saints (London's B team), not London Brawling.

Luckily, although England weren't seeded they ended up as if they were anyway. It's just a shame they are in the same half as USA (I assume the winner of each Group will play the winner of the group in the same half at semi finals). If it ends up with a semi-final of England vs USA then I suspect the semi might be more exciting than the actual final!

Brawl Saints

Yes, indeed -- I wasn't using Berlin's performance to justify them being effectively placed above England, I was using it to suggest that they'll do well against the rest of Europe.

I'm not sure how the draw halves work -- I don't think it's been settled yet, which is why there is now the delay in sorting out the full schedule. Here's hoping for a England v Canada semifinal...

Seed, Brawl Saints, Brawling and Berlin is not Germany

To put it really quickly to an end...

1. Berlin is not Germany - what means that there will be also players from other really good German and US teams playing on team Germany. The same goes btw for all the countries taking part. And that makes it interesting. So it is useless to discuss berlin's performance or any other league's because we are talking countries.

2. Brawling/ Brawl Saints - you maybe seen only Brawl Saints play, but there was also a closed door bout against brawling the next day. I know about the result and the performance, but as it is closed door it'll stay closed door. ;-)

3. Seeding - I am Germany's head coach and I discussed the seeding with the other coaches and we don't know. So I am awaiting an answer from B&T why Germany was seeded over UK. BUT we figured it would be the arrival issue on the one hand and also the regional factor on the other why England probably not have been put into the seeded box.

Cheers

Titty

Indeed!

Yes - I'm not saying that Berlin = Germany... just that they're a useful example of how good German derby is, putting it in a context that makes sense for the international audience.

The seeding doesn't matter in the least -- it was just a cause of some confusion, no offense meant to you or your team.

Also, I know about (2) -- that's as much of a reason for being impressed by Berlin (if not more so) than the game the previous day.

No offense taken

@ Lex: No offense taken... ja, and if you overthink that Stuttgart has never been beaten bei Berlin and that they beat the second best UK team in their last bout and also I am sure berlin will beat LRR on Saturday - Germany is bringing the best they can. And ja, the seeding doesn't matter - and this is what I meant with Berlin is not Germany cause we talk countries and this means really good players with different strategies and things they are used to and THIS makes ist sooo interesting! High art to put it all together in a short time...I am excited... it is still all aboit team work!

Cheers from Germany

Titty

eeerrrm i think LRR will win

eeerrrm i think LRR will win saturday, now go wash your mouth out with soap titty
and berlin has not beaten the second best british team as WE don't play them until tommorrow

I may concur...

...with your prediction for tomorrow's game but have to point out that *ahem* LRGs Brawl Saints may already have a claim on that second best title, having beat all the teams in question. ;)

with a little help from

with a little help from london brawling players

Actually

LRG B team is, and always has been, made up of the bottom 6 players from the WFTDA charter plus 8 more.

Some people said that the LRG

Some people said that the LRG shouldn't have gone to regionals. They did their talking on the track. England will do the same.

Bastard Operator From Hell

Hi there,

I maintain the website for LRG - and I want to apologize for being slack! The http://www.londonrollergirls.com/brawl-saints page used to list only players that were "pure" Brawl Saints, and I never got round to adding the bottom 6 from Brawling to the list.
This has now been fixed - the page now lists the full roster of 20. Hopefully that will avoid confusion in the future!

Don't be nasty :-D

Don't be nasty beertester, you will be in Stuttgart next year. ;-) And lucky you were winning :-D But congrats and well done like always!

of course i will be in

of course i will be in stuttgart next year, it will always be my favourite bout of the season, but there was no luck in us beating berlin

Seeds

The draw was indeed complicated, but it stands to reason that the seeds were made after taking other considerations into mind. England was drawn separately as a team with "arrival issues," meaning they would be coming to Toronto later than most others. Otherwise, surely they would have been a "seeded" team along with USA, Germany, and Canada. This must be why there were only three seeds but four groups.

In retrospect, it might have been nice if Blood & Thunder posted an explanation on how the draw would work ahead of time. And I would have liked to seen a big board behind them for adding the teams to each group. But all in all, it was a good event, the draws seem fairly equal, and I am super excited to watch it all on DNN!

Just explain things up front

scb2468 wrote:

In retrospect, it might have been nice if Blood & Thunder posted an explanation on how the draw would work ahead of time.

Right? Did they not watch the mess that WFTDA made out of a similar process this year (and last)? Don't get me wrong -- I don't think for a second that there was anything fishy going on. But the way you ensure that nobody questions the legitimacy of something like this is to provide a detailed explanation of how it will work BEFORE you actually do it (not as you go along).

It was just funny to me to see this "and this one can't go there, so it's going to go over here" stuff after what happened with the WFTDA champs draw.

Again...not trying to suggest anything wasn't as it should have been. Just scratching my head a little. :)

huh?

Ok, this all seems really confusing. What's the point of doing a pool draw if there's no brackets? None of this makes any sense, and the bye's as well.

there will be a bracket

Holly Gohardly wrote:

Ok, this all seems really confusing. What's the point of doing a pool draw if there's no brackets? None of this makes any sense, and the bye's as well.

This is very much like how the soccer world cup is done.

First, the teams in each pool play against each other.

Based on the results of those games, you then create a bracket. Presumably, winners of the 4 pools will get better bracket placement (i.e. they will get byes and/or they will play against teams that did the worst in the group phase).

In soccer, only the top 2 teams from each group move on to the bracket. But here, everyone will move on...but those who don't do well in pool-play will face tough opponents in the bracket.

but....

Dave Wood wrote:
Holly Gohardly wrote:

Ok, this all seems really confusing. What's the point of doing a pool draw if there's no brackets? None of this makes any sense, and the bye's as well.

This is very much like how the soccer world cup is done.

First, the teams in each pool play against each other.

Based on the results of those games, you then create a bracket. Presumably, winners of the 4 pools will get better bracket placement (i.e. they will get byes and/or they will play against teams that did the worst in the group phase).

In soccer, only the top 2 teams from each group move on to the bracket. But here, everyone will move on...but those who don't do well in pool-play will face tough opponents in the bracket.

except with the soccer world cup, the knockout bracket is known long before the tournament starts.
it just has to be populated by the group stage.

LRG Brawl Saints

... dear bette, for me I suggest LRG as league as best - there is LRG, then nothing for lomg and then the others... when I am talking about second best I don't mean a LRG team cause they are the bestest to me in Europe anyways....

@ Beertester:
LRR was lucky to win! ;-)

groups and brackets

I don't know all the details but my understanding of the process, groups and brackets is this:

Teams were ranked in order of "experience."
The "most experienced" teams (USA, Canada, England and Germany) were prevented from being within the same group, this seems logical.
Throw in the wrench of late arriving teams and the draw grows more complicated.

The pool play will be used to re-rank teams in an effort for competitive accuracy. All teams will be re-ranked and included in the single elimination bracket. The top three seeds will have a bye.
Ranking will be by W-L-T and then by point differential.

There will also be consolation brackets in order to end with a solid 1-13 ranking.

"Endless" Justin Campoy
Gotham Girls Roller Derby All Stars, Manager
Team USA Roller Derby, Manager

T...?

Wait, there are going to be ties...? What sort of crazy derby are you guys playing over there?! ;)

Nearly...

The impression we got from the draw was that only the top 3 teams -- USA, Canada and Germany -- were seeded to avoid them meeting in a group. It seemed (this may not have been the case) that it was just luck that meant England ended up in the other group... but who knows.

It will be interesting to see how the provisional rankings work from the groups (especially as some teams have three games and some only have two), and I'll be very interested to see team's final rosters. Do we know when the deadline is for final roster submission? I know of at least one team whose skaters are currently a little up in the air...