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2010 North Central Region Playoffs Recaps

Sunday

Final: 1NC Windy City 132, 7NC Minnesota 83 -- Although Windy City had looked a little shaky for most of their opening game against Naptown on Friday and had had to fight extremely hard to turn back a semifinal challenge from Cincinnati on Saturday, they played a very effective game here against surprising Minnesota to deny MNRG their third upset in a row and become repeat North Central champions.

For the first ten minutes of the game, though, it looked like Minnesota might not be out of magic. After a scoreless opening jam, Minnesota got on the board on three consecutive jams while continuing to blank Windy City. By the beginning of the fifth jam, it was 15-0 favoring the underdogs -- but a big 14-0 powerjam for Windy City's Varla Vendetta erased almost the entire margin with 20 minutes left in the half. For the next 40 minutes worth of gameplay, it was pretty much all Windy City. Particularly hard hitting from Go Go Hatchet and Hoosier Mama seemed to sap the strength of Minnesota's jammers, and the Windy scoring attack was again led by Shocka Conduit. By the half it was 73-24 for the defending regional champs.

Although Minnesota's previous two games had featured epic second-half comebacks, Windy City seemed to come out after the break determined to not give them a chance to adjust. Ten minutes deep into the half, Windy City's lead peaked at 92 points, 117-25, and hovered around 90 until there were 12 minutes left to play.

Minnesota finally got their offense restarted at about that point and went on an impressive 46-5 run to the end of the game, but there wasn't enough time remaining for Windy City's lead to seem seriously threatened. They did, though, manage to make the final margin a more respectable 49 points. -- Justice Feelgood Marshall

Archived DNN textcast

Third Place: 3NC Madison 164, 4NC Cincinnati 143 -- For the third day in a row, Cincinnati treated the audience to a thriller of a back-and-forth contest. For almost the entire running length of the bout, the margin between Madison and Cincinnati was fewer than 10 points, but in the very end, Cincy was brought low by an accumulation of track cuts on their jammers that gave Madison room to open it up. For the second year in a row, Cincy was stopped one bout short of a trip to the championship tournament, while Madison heads back for their second appearance.

Like Cincy's semifinal game against Windy City, this one was a relatively high-scoring affair. In a bit of foreshadowing, Cincy jammer K Lethal went to the box on the first jam, allowing Madison to go up 19-2 early, but they weren't able to extend that lead at all as Cincinnati came storming back. Eight minutes in, a chaotic jam had Cincy's Wheezy on a powerjam against a full Madison box, leading to a 14-0 jam and Cincinnati's first lead at 38-27.

Cincinnati held that lead until about the 11 minute mark. Madison's Lil' Miss Behavin' took a 8-0 to put Madison back up 54-50, but that lead wouldn't get wider than 10 points before Hannah Ouchocinco took it back at 64-63with 5 minutes left in the half on a quick 4-0. But by the break, Madison was barely in front again, 78-71.

Madison was once again unable to extend the lead beyond single-jam range early in the second, and stayed ahead by a hair for the first 12 minutes of the half. At last Cincinnati put together two jam wins in a row -- 4-0 K Lethal and 2-0 to Hannah Ouchocinco -- to make it Cincinnati 99, Madison 98 with 17:45 left to play.

Right here was where a whole slew of Cincinnati jammer track cuts, most going to K. Lethal, made things quite a bit tougher for them. Cincy only had the lead for one jam before K Lethal took a major cut and a 4th minor cut in the same jam, leading to two jams in a row where Madison scored at will. They put up 24 unopposed points to take their biggest lead of the game at 123-99 with 13:30 left on the clock.

After a 0-0 jam, the track cut bug bit K Lethal yet again - but this time Cincinnati's pack stepped up very effectively to kill the powerjam without a score. And then, with 9:44 left on the clock. Cincy's Hannah Ouchocinco delivered an explosive 29-0 jam as a light Madison pack simply couldn't build walls quickly enough to slow her roll. Once again Cincinnati was in front, 128-123, with 7:07 left in the game.

But the Cincy momentum was killed when K Lethal cut track to the box yet again. Madison's Mouse took 9 and put Madison in front for good, 132-128, with 5:37 left. K Lethal fouled out on that box trip, robbing Cincy of half of their primary jammer rotation.

On the game's 2nd to last jam, it was, fittingly enough, a jammer track cut that would be the final nail in the coffin for Cincy. This time it was Trauma off to the box as Madison's Darling Nikki trucked through for 20 unanswered points, making it 157-132 with only a few ticks left on the period clock.

Cincy called timeout to force a last jam; Hannah Ouchocinco needed a 25-0 just to tie and ran the full 2 minutes in hopes of a miracle, but the last jam's score of 11-7 was far from enough. -- Justice Feelgood Marshall

Archived DNN textcast

7th Place: 6NC North Star 138, 5NC Brewcity 84 -- After taking the lead from Milwaukee’s Brewcity Bruisers in the third jam, the North Star Supernovas refused to give it up and closed out the bout with a 138-84 win. NSRG and BCB finish the tournament in 7th and 8th places, respectively.

Brewcity jammer Rejected Seoul started the bout with four unanswered points, but North Star quickly erased their lead and created a twelve-point cushion in their favor over the next three jams. Jamming again 13 minutes in, Seoul did her best to even it up while opposing jammer Jawbreaker sat in the penalty box, but NSRG took only three minutes to undo all of her work. Midway through the half, BCB jammer Rhoda Ruin took advantage of two North Star blockers serving penalties to put up seven points but ended up in the box herself, allowing North Star jammer MEDUSA to gain eight on the following power jam.

BCB jammers ZoTay and Skittle added five points apiece to bring the Bruisers up to 35, but a track-cutting call on BCB jammer Skittle gave North Star's Stalker Channing the chance to put up five more while skating unopposed. MEDUSA literally leapt in the lead jammer position with two minutes remaining and she and Jawbreaker brought the score to 55 NSRG - 35 BCB at halftime.

For the first 1:07 of the second half, the pack literally went nowhere, finally crossing the line and releasing the jammers after BCB’s pivot left the penalty box. North Star employed the slow pack start again at the start of the second jam, drawing loud boos from the crowd but creating a confused Brewcity pack which, combined with a major penalty against BCB jammer High D. Voltage, gave North Star Katarina Hit the chance to rack up 20 points.

This led into several jams rife with major penalties against blockers and jammers for both teams. The box emptied with just over 15 minutes left and a score of 89 NSRG – 57 BCB, but major penalties leading to unopposed jams allowed BCB to earn 19 and NSRG jammers 35 in the final ten minutes. Skaters and refs took a knee with less than one minute on the clock for NSRG jammer Stalker Channing, who was injured coming around a turn but left the track under her own power. After an official timeout and discussion with both teams, the match was ended with the final score 138-84. -- Ayn Rant

Archived DNN textcast

9th Place: 10NC Omaha 169, 8NC Arch Rival 112 -- With the Green Bay Packers playing away in Philadelphia, Lambeau Field sat empty on Sunday morning. The action was right across the street in the Brown County Arena, where the Omaha Rollergirls and Arch Rival kicked off another long day of the WFTDA North Central Regional tournament. It was a free-wheeling affair, with tournament newcomers Omaha steam rolling St. Louis 169-112.

More experienced Arch Rival gained the early lead at 34-8 ten minutes into the game.  Omaha slowly found their confidence and edged back to within 17, 54-31. After that, the flood gates opened up for Omaha. Omaha captured nine lead jams in a row for a 64-0 run, highlighted by 25-0 and 15-0 power jams from Anna Maniac and Ima Firestarter.  While points rained for Omaha, the penalties came for Arch Rival. Omaha led at half, 87-54. 

Thirty-seven combined points from Artemischief and South City Shiner in five short minutes closed the gap for Arch Rival to 120-94 at the 16:30 mark in the second half.  Penalties would plague Arch Rival once again, and Omaha finished the game on a 49-18 run. Arch Rival would end the game with 33 majors and 85 minors compared to 22 majors and 76 minors for Omaha.

While the jammers went round-and-round, both packs time and again resorted to stop pack defense and counter-rotation skating. Sometimes the bout was more of a contra dance than a jammer race. The slow and stop game was something new for Omaha, but they learned how to play it and defend it well during the bout.

Anna Maniac finished the game with 81 points.  Ima Firestarter added 42 points more.   South City Shiner scored 48 points for Arch Rival, while Artemischief had 37 points. -- Geoffrey Saucer

Archived DNN textcast

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Jesus, Justice

if you can just get the recap on North / Mad up in the next 20 minutes, it'll debut before the game even ends.

Seriously.

No kidding, Justice, you're really firing these off, huh?

Hah!

It's only day 1 of the first set of Regionals.

Hey DNN, good luck with Power Rankings in October!

No kidding

I wouldn't want to be DNN having to figure that out in any way, shape or form.

If you missed it

I have to say Brew City vs Cincinnati was the bout of Day 1. Great effort from both teams out on the track.

@wftda tweet

Totally unbelievable that after railroading Sadie and her team right before they play the wftda presidents team in a tournament, WFTDA openly tweets their excitement that WCR beat Cincy. Extremely unprofessional.

Agreed

WFTDA's acting really floppy.

umm,

I see no such tweet?!

They deleted it shortly after

They deleted it shortly after my post. I guess they realized how shady they've proven themselves to be. It said "Woohoo Windy City"

assUme

As soon as they realized the possible confusion, they followed up with this clarification:

"For those who saw the Woo Hoo WCR tweet it was a reply to a tweet from a WCR watch party, thanking them for supporting DNN. Many apologies!"

Let's not assume bad intent for something that can be explained by simple crossed wires. As someone who's misfired more than a couple tweets (if you follow the DNN scores feed you'll know this well), I can sympathize with neglecting an @tag!

Assume

Sorry but as a Cincy fan, I do assume ill intent. Professional sports players get in trouble all the time and get suspended for a few games, not the whole damn season. The news on what happened with Sadie broke June 1. Nothing happens for 3 months and then she is suspended a few days before finals, it is fishy. Sadie didn't hurt anyone. She committed a white collar crime. The only real offense here seems to have been that Cincinnati has a great publicity machine and Saide is a bit of local celebrity so it got picked up by the news.

I asked a few skaters from Cincinnati and all they will say is they are not allowed to comment due to WFTDA confidentiality rules. WTF? When the NFL or NBA suspends someone: 1. It is quick after the offense. 2. It is made public 3. Everyone moves on. This super secret suspension no one can talk about a few days before the playoffs sucks and it smells.

Finally since when does WFTDA suspend individual skaters? Have they even done this before? If this is so ground breaking shouldn't someone be talking about it?

And for all those that say one player doesn't matter that much, Cincy had a VERY close game against Windy City and losing one of their super stars right before the play offs, that makes a difference. Sadie was a team leader on Team Awesome and the WFTDA skater of the month in May or June, so she is that good. It would be like an NFL team losing their quarterback and people saying it really shouldn't matter for a good team. BS. Also DNN bumped Kansas City up 5 slots in the July Power Rankings based largely on Kelley Young returning to the team. So everyone has to accept one key player can make a huge difference.

In the voice of the Charlie Brown teacher

@ Rollerfan Wa wop Wa Wa Wa. Wa Wa, Wa Wa-wa-Wa. Wop Wa Wa Wa Wa Wa-Wa. Wop Wa, Wa-Wa-Wa Wa Wa. Wa wop Wa Wa Wa. Wa Wa, Wa Wa-wa-Wa. Wop Wa Wa Wa Wa Wa-Wa. Wop Wa, Wa-Wa-Wa Wa Wa. Wa wop Wa Wa Wa. Wa Wa, Wa Wa-wa-Wa. Wop Wa Wa Wa Wa Wa-Wa. Wop Wa, Wa-Wa-Wa Wa Wa. Wa wop Wa Wa Wa. Wa Wa, Wa Wa-wa-Wa. Wop Wa Wa Wa Wa Wa-Wa. Wop Wa, Wa-Wa-Wa Wa Wa.

wow that is whitty and smart

I just want someone to talk about what is going on. The Cincinnati skaters won't say anything except they are not allowed to comment by WFTDA regulations. WFTDA has made no comment. DNN's only comment was they were not going to talk about it becuase they just want to cover the sport. Well the sport includes news of what happened to a Cincinnati fan favorite. If you have ever been to a game at the Cincinnati Gardens there are 3,000 people there and they go ape shit everytime Sadie is introduced. I am sorry but we care what happened and we have the right to ask. The fact no one will comment is BS.

Roller Derby skaters always say they want to be taken seriously as a real sport. Well in real sports like the NFL, NBA, and even golf for godsakes.......when you suspend a player, especially a susper star, it is news and you announce it and then fans and the sites talk about it. This giant super secret suspension is just BS. A fan asking questions is not something to be ignored. Well unless your a private club sport and not a "real sport". See once you have people that pay to see your games and you start getting covered on the news sports section, then your a real sport and you have to answer to your fans. CLub sports are private and what happens is internal to the club only. Sorry I was confused, here in Cincinnati roller derby is treated like a real sport but WFTDA must not be there yet.

One thing we are allowed to

One thing we are allowed to say is, thank you for your support, Rollerfan. ;)

Yes, yes, yes. You are

Yes, yes, yes. You are absolutely 100% right and there's a lot more to complain about than this one situation (which is a perfect example of the problem). Why is everything a secret? STATS, what games are WFTDA sanctioned (it's not a secret, but there's no official source), scores aren't even official on WFTDA's website, any kind of news whatsoever other than what teams are going to what tournaments and what teams are now a part of WFTDA seem like internal stuff that no one needs to know about according to the WFTDA.

HELLO WFTDA! There are fans that want to follow your sport, the harder you make it for them to do that, the more likely they're going to give up and just go to their city's bouts and be done with it.

rE: the bigchuck

Yeah your right. This one got me all hot becuase I love to watch Sadie play and now she is banned by WFTDA and even the local skaters won't tell me anything becuase they said WFTDA said any comments are covered ny the confidentiality policy. The stuff about scores in such I always wrote off to WFTDA being young and all volunteer. I figured that would get fixed in time. But this is clearly making a decision to withhold information from the fans becuase WFTDA has banned the local skaters from talking to the fans about it. DNN also seems to be on it. I asked like 15 times on the text cast about Saide or why are all the Cincinnati girls wearing the same jersey and not a single comment was allowed through.

Wrong.

Rollerfan wrote:

DNN also seems to be on it. I asked like 15 times on the text cast about Saide or why are all the Cincinnati girls wearing the same jersey and not a single comment was allowed through.

Cutting & pasting from the Cincy / Brew boutcast here.

Quote:

Comment From sweet mary pain: 
all of cincy is wearing the name sadistic sadie on their uniforms!!! I love that

Comment From Rollerfan:
I don't think they liked Sadie not being on the track :-)

Hurt Reynolds: 
As many have noted, the entirety of Cincinnati's roster are wearing "Sadistic Sadie" on their jerseys, rather than their traditional derby name. You'll find the background on this at the Cincinnati Rollergirls website.

Just sayin'.

Re: Justice

Yes my point was I posted a lot more than just that. I trying to post several time questions about such as "does anyone know why they are all wearing Sadie on their jersey" and such and it never got through. And then you referenced the Cincinnati rollerfirls website and they only thing on there is a one line phrase in the preview of the game that says Saide was suspended. You had a Cincinnati skater as one of the moderators on the text cast, why would no one provide any information on anything?

What's best for the team

There could be ongoing legal issues for the team. If so, they shouldn't be saying anything about it to the fans. I love watching Sadie skate too, but actions have consequences.

Good news is, Cincy is kicking ass this weekend!

Uhhh..

Have you tried google?? People may not be talking but the news was. Cincy is respecting WFTDAs confidentiality agreement, as they should and you should respect as well, and Sadie. "Real sports" air their dirty laundry because the world loves gossip so of course they're gonna throw their players under the bus. WFTDA and DNN are a little more classy.

As a lover of Sadie, it seems like you just want this constant reminder brought up in the public forum to further rub it in her face why she's out, I'm sure it's already breaking her heart. Some fan. Read up and shut it already.

also wrong.

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

Yes, yes, yes. You are absolutely 100% right and there's a lot more to complain about than this one situation (which is a perfect example of the problem). Why is everything a secret? STATS, what games are WFTDA sanctioned (it's not a secret, but there's no official source), scores aren't even official on WFTDA's website, any kind of news whatsoever other than what teams are going to what tournaments and what teams are now a part of WFTDA seem like internal stuff that no one needs to know about according to the WFTDA.

HELLO WFTDA! There are fans that want to follow your sport, the harder you make it for them to do that, the more likely they're going to give up and just go to their city's bouts and be done with it.

Stats and Sanctioned games are not private. As you say, there's not a good source to retrieve that information but there are plans to make it public. The scores on the web site are official and are checked by Sanctioning (when the volunteer does her job).

The WFTDA also makes this information accessible to DNN. So, I don't think they're making it "harder" by any means.

Sorry, but if there's no way

Sorry, but if there's no way for the public to get their hands on the stats, they're private. It may not be an actively secretive thing and is just a function of not having anything set up to distribute those stats, but the reality is that no one can see the stats. Therefore, they're private. This excuse is weak anyway, even if the WFTDA doesn't have anything set up for their website, the WFTDA could still send out the excel spreadsheets or PDFs to journalists that cover derby.

As for scores, getting them from a 3rd party organization makes zero sense to me. How hard is it to require leagues hosting sanctioned games to report their scores immediately following the game (or (hint hint) during the game (yes, there are some people that try to keep track of scores while games are happening)) and then sending out a press release and/or posting them online saturday night or sunday morning.

Making the information accessible to one news organization is great but doesn't solve any problem if they don't publish it. And, really, even if they did, I would like to be able to get information from the official source so I know it's official and multiple news organizations.

From my outsider's perspective, it seems like the WFTDA is taking the stance that DNN is good enough and there's no reason do any better which is just embarrassingly untrue.

Bottom line

The bottom line is that the WFTDA is not a business, it's a club.
Business is run by professionals. Clubs are run by volunteers.
Me thinks you expect too much.

Thank you!

Thanks for saying that. Ol' Chuck must think it's pretty easy for a bunch of unpaid volunteers to run an international sports organization with almost 100 member leagues (not to mention the 43 current Apprentice Leagues).

It's not like we're trying to make it difficult for you to get the information you want. First of all, as has been mentioned, you can in fact find bout scores on WFTDA.com (yes, they do come from DNN as soon as they're posted there, but so what?). As has also been mentioned, there are rad plans for providing stats to the public, and there are also rad plans for getting bout schedules posted on the website.

Have some patience and understand that maybe it's not that WFTDA is trying to keep everything secret, but perhaps we're simply just still working on putting things in place to provide such information to the public. Keep your pants on! Rome wasn't built in a day, and all that.

Instead of getting indignant and trashing talking on DNN comment threads when you don't like what WFTDA is or is not doing, maybe you should consider submitting your suggestions via the website or Facebook page so they get to the people who need to see them.

Take a second and add up the

Take a second and add up the time you would think it would take for a WFTDA rep to do the things I asked for in that post for one game.

My guess is 20 minutes tops. Get the score e-mail or phone call from the league rep. Type into WFTDA's CMS = 2 minutes. Get the stats e-mail from the league's stats rep, save as PDF, attach and send to mailing list = 6 minutes. Times 2.5 for issues they may run into or if I'm drastically underestimating those times. So, if there are 10 games that weekend, that means one person is spending a little over 3 hours. Is that really expecting too much? Really?

...or get off the pot.

If you don't like the way things are done or think they could be done faster, why not offer to help your favorite WFTDA league and be a part of the solution?

wow

great way to keep fans coming back to support us in doing what we love to do.

It is rather nice when fans

It is rather nice when fans support you in doing what you love to do instead of just bitching on the Internet about how certain things aren't done fast enough.

As a small business owner trying to keep my own head above water

I can safely say that on top of my current duties to my own league that to add on what you are asking would literally be impossible. And I don't even have kids/family. I attempted to be a WFTDA rep for my league and just keeping up with the discussion board, let alone the actual work involved with being a rep proved to be too much and I consider myself to be a champion multi-tasker. The hardest working people on my league are WFTDA reps. They are superwomen. Not even kidding about that. I'm sure WFTDA is certainly listening to this discussion and I am positive that they want to do things better. Not saying that what you are proposing isn't needed or wanted. But it may not be possible until people start to be paid for the work, and I am not privvy to whether or not that is a sound business decision for WFTDA at this time.

I just wanted to give my personal opinion that yes, what you are asking IS expecting too much.

PS

Holy shit, thank you to Madison and Cincinnati for the awesome bout. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time! You both played so well and I had a blast watching your game.

Indeed it was a great game!

Indeed it was a great game!

fantastic game

All of Cincinnati's games were great this weekend and I watched the liva boutcast of all three. Now if you guys could just stay out of the box..... I imagine there is a lot of drills to avoid track cutting in your future.

I dread that you may be right

I dread that you may be right about said drills. I also see many different forms of torture for track cuts happening, too.

drills

As much as I love and support you guys.... Having your jammer cut the track so many times that she gets ejected is something that needs to be corrected.

huh?

"As for scores, getting them from a 3rd party organization makes zero sense to me."

You can see scores on the wftda web site.

Furthermore, when I was head of stats we gave them to any journalist who requested (and busted ass to get them to DNN pre-tournament last year). Also, leagues have access to all stats. We don't have the infrastructure to handle public requests but your local league could help. So the reality is, plenty of people can see stats. Every WFTDA rep can.

"From my outsider's perspective, it seems like the WFTDA is taking the stance that DNN is good enough and there's no reason do any better which is just embarrassingly untrue."

I stated there were plans (hopes) to get them public so either you're not reading or are just angry and feel like arguing. Regardless, this is where I stop responding.

I'm not trying to be the problem, I'm trying to help

MsDfiant wrote:

You can see scores on the wftda web site.

"Bout scores provided by Derby News Network"

MsDfiant wrote:

Furthermore, when I was head of stats we gave them to any journalist who requested (and busted ass to get them to DNN pre-tournament last year). Also, leagues have access to all stats. We don't have the infrastructure to handle public requests but your local league could help. So the reality is, plenty of people can see stats. Every WFTDA rep can.

Every WFTDA rep is what? 80 people? Not a lot. I'm talking about thousands of fans. The point isn't that a journalist can get the stats to a game if they're writing an article or something. The point is that people should be able to see who the visiting team's best jammer is or be able to show what the stats say in an argument over which blocker is better or see what my favorite player did when she played out of town and all I can find is the score. Journalists should be able to do that, WFTDA skaters should be able to do that, and even the LOWLY pathetic fans should be able to do that. The information is all there saved on a server somewhere. It just needs to be formatted and posted online.

MsDfiant wrote:

I stated there were plans (hopes) to get them public so either you're not reading or are just angry and feel like arguing. Regardless, this is where I stop responding.

"Hopes" doesn't exactly make me very optimistic that it's going to happen in my lifetime.

If the WFTDA doesn't want fans to follow the national scene and only pay attention to roller derby when they go to their local game, then by all means keep doing what you're doing. But, I have a feeling the organization's goals are a little higher than that but it's pretty hard to tell.

My personal opinion and not

My personal opinion and not speaking on behalf of the WFTDA: WFTDA's first responsibility is to the members, not the fans. I love the fans and want to get awesome nerdy stats out to you all! I swear! We have some rad plans for Stats but first we need to make sure that the processes WORK so we don't look like tools. PS, have you ever tried requesting stats from the leagues themselves?

I'm envious

It must be nice to have free time available to grumble about perceived injustices, without much thought about the literally thousands of unpaid hours it has taken even to get here. Is it at all adequate? Not yet. Is that an act of malice? Wow. No.

The only reason DNN has the kind of information channel we have is because we've helped, in about a hundred ways, to build the information. In a volunteer powered community, don't expect *get* unless you start by giving.

Ok, having vented all my "it's amazing how quickly people feel entitled" moment, let me point out that the future looks bright. Resources provided (and we think they will be), the off season (such as it is) looks like a time that much progress can be made on tools to make stats publicly and readily accessible. The future for this very unconventional sports model looks VERY bright.

Let me be clear

where my frustration comes from. It isn't that I feel WFTDA should do whatever I want. The reason I feel frustrated is because I see so many things that the WFTDA could be doing with MINIMAL effort that would have a dramatic affect on the information that fans could get and create a professional presentation. DIY is a thing to be proud of but it shouldn't look DIY and it shouldn't be an excuse. I want the WFTDA to succeed beyond even my crazy dreams, if I didn't, why would I care and post about it? I'm not asking for "thousands" of man-hours to take place. I'm asking for simple things with big results. That's what drives me crazy is that these things would be so easy to implement but they aren't happening.

Sending out a press release and putting that release on WFTDA.com for major events is EASY (and yes, I consider a player suspension a major event). They're already doing this for a lot of things but there should be much much much more.

Having leagues submit scores/stats within a half hour of the completion of a sanctioned game and having those scores/stats online within an hour of that game is EASY (I'll stop talking about this because people are saying that it's coming but I always have a hard time believing things when people just say "hey, it's coming. shut up." instead of "we will have it done by january.", not that they owe me that answer, of course).

If DNN can obtain scores (from all teams, not just WFTDA sanctioned games), write both preview and recap articles, keep track of all the articles and videos about roller derby posted elsewhere online, host live video and blogging of big events, etc with THREE people. I don't think it's too much to ask to have at least that level of execution from the WFTDA who has a ton more people to do LESS work.

I get really frustrated with the derby community about this stuff. Of course, I appreciate the work that's being done. Does that really need to be said? Why would I contribute to DNN and pay for season tickets to the league in my city if I didn't? Any criticism is immediately met with resistance, like the status quo is always perfect. I guess I just expect smart and creative people to want to constantly improve their sport instead of saying "it's good enough."

Gin and spreadsheets.

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

Having leagues submit scores/stats within a half hour of the completion of a sanctioned game and having those scores/stats online within an hour of that game is EASY

As the guy who submits those stats for my league, I can tell you that trying to put all that stuff into Excel at the afterparty bar is probably going to decrease the accuracy a tad.

I've done stats for

I've done stats for basketball and football at the college level and I didn't have to do anything more than hit save and send when the game was over. What kind of crazy stats are you people keeping track of?

Depends...

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

I've done stats for basketball and football at the college level and I didn't have to do anything more than hit save and send when the game was over. What kind of crazy stats are you people keeping track of?

How crazy do you want it? (wink wink)

let's take a couple steps

let's take a couple steps back then...what exactly do you think derby stats are?

The statsbook has the score sheets, penalty tracking sheets and the lineup tracking sheets. 99.9% of leagues use the printed sheets and a pen to track that info and then enter it into the statsbook. For a fast typer, it can take about a half hour. If you are hungover from the afterparty, it may take a bit longer. They also have two weeks to submit them with the IBRF, which can't be helped.

Some leagues are super amazing and have rad computer setups so they can do it live, but they are a tiny (rad) minority.

miscount

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

If DNN can obtain scores (from all teams, not just WFTDA sanctioned games), write both preview and recap articles, keep track of all the articles and videos about roller derby posted elsewhere online, host live video and blogging of big events, etc with THREE people. I don't think it's too much to ask to have at least that level of execution from the WFTDA who has a ton more people to do LESS work.

DNN is not three people. DNN is three principals, yes, but literally hundreds of people's time and effort go into what we deliver, and building that network of relationships has been no small part of our time investment.

Lest I be remiss, thank you for your contributions! We definitely do appreciate them.

Stats, stats, stats and stats

My experience with reporting stuff (scores mostly) to DNN (I did it for quite a few bouts last year) was pretty amazing.

Sounds like WFTDA has something planned. And I'm confident that here's enough stats people and sports fans involved in the process that it will work out.

The more interesting aspect (to me) of this topic is ... the stats themselves. I've been bouncing around a prototype trading card design for awhile now, and you know, childhood being what it is ... I always want to have that "omg, check it out, Soandso only hits .132 vs. Lefties after the all-star break" type moment.

But ... Roller Derby sometimes falls into the same problem the NFL suffers from.

Touchdowns are an easy stat to promote. The Offensive Line is the lynchpin of the offense. But you can't reflect that on a trading card.

Blocking ... the pack ... soooooo much of the action and scoring hinges on what's going on with that. But reflecting that in a sexy-trading card type of way ... I haven't found it yet.

Hmmmmm.

-Wheel Smith

Defensive stats...

WheelSmith wrote:

But ... Roller Derby sometimes falls into the same problem the NFL suffers from.

Touchdowns are an easy stat to promote. The Offensive Line is the lynchpin of the offense. But you can't reflect that on a trading card.

Blocking ... the pack ... soooooo much of the action and scoring hinges on what's going on with that. But reflecting that in a sexy-trading card type of way ... I haven't found it yet.

Being as this is some stuff I've personally worked on (the WFTDA StatsBook) I can tell you that we do have some good statistics on skaters defensive work. Avg Blocker +/- and Avg Pivot +/- tell you the average difference between the skater's team's scoring and the other team's while she is playing that position. The larger the number is, the better she did.

Then we can take that and compare her result to the average team result to get her VTAR (Versus Team Average Rating) for her in each position she plays (blocker, pivot, jammer).

Breaking these +/- ratings and VTAR down by positions is one of the OTHER big changes that's come in with the version that had to be created because of the changes to penalties and their enforcement.

Oh that sounds very interesting

This sounds like exactly what I was looking for. I'm very interested in hearing more about VTAR and plus/minus is definitely something I can wrap my brain around. I like where things are heading.

-Wheel Smith

your frustration is sort of awesome

I'd like to point out (as an impartial observer, ahem) that the fact that there are fans so frustrated about not having easy access to schedules and stats direct from WFTDA is actually pretty cool, not for folks like thebigchuckbowski of course, but for the sport as a whole. It's a sign of how much our sport has grown, and hints at possibilities for the future that not many folks could have predicted just a few years ago. Fans--actual fans, not skaters from another team or someone's parents or girlfriend or brother--are demanding more information and transparency from the WFTDA, which means they're dedicated and enthusiastic and care about more than just their local team. That's a big deal in a world where many sportswriters still take us less seriously than Lingerie Football.

Comprehensive schedules of upcoming bouts? Up-to-date player stats? Realtime game updates from around the country/world? Yes please! These things are a ways off, but people are starting to ask for them, and it sounds like WFTDA and DNN are trying to figure out how to deliver. There's real opportunities for dedicated supporters to step up and offer their services to DNN and WFTDA. Not to get all mushy, but the future is coming--slowly, painfully, with many missteps and false starts--and it is going to be awesome.

So hooray for you, chuckbowski! Keep asking for what you want (respectfully, please), and maybe offer to help if you can, and try to be patient and enthusiastic about what's coming instead of angry about what's not here yet. Speaking from experience, it's crushing to volunteer hundreds of hours of your time to something you love only to hear "I'm frustrated because you're not doing enough."

I dream of the magical day that my boyfriend spends as much time poring over Fantasy Roller Derby spreadsheets as he does with hockey and baseball. It might not be soon, and it might not be perfect, but it'll be glorious.

time time time

srsly man, you are describing an ideal....we are all dealing with a lot of realities though.

I am a director of my league, a DNN contributor, a WFTDA rep, a UKRDA rep, have a full time high pressure job...oh yeah and I am about to be induced to have a baby. That's how this shit runs...by people like me.

There is no army of people waiting around to publish stats and other info, I wish there was. Do I try and get Euro scores into DNN asap? Sure. Does it always succeed? Hell no. You know, sometimes I like to go to the after party instead of rushing back to the computer. Or sometimes it takes a few emails and social networking trawling to find out a score for a league that doesn't realize they must report INSTANTLY.

Could someone else in the league do it? Yeah well we all have internet, but we also all have a bazillion other things going on. "Minimal effort" is a VERY subjective and relative thing. There is no magic quick bullet for all this stuff. The stat sheets are paper...it's not a question of just hitting submit. It will be great when we get there, but we aren't there yet. It's not being shady or trying to hide, it's literally JUST NOT THERE YET.

But please don't make me and others like me feel like shit cause we are not doing enough. Srsly. I might have to come drop my new baby at your house, hand over access to the 3 forums I have to check on every single day, give you the worrying responsibility for putting on a major event every month while helping run a league of 60 headstrong derby girls, oh and maybe you can sub in my full time job every now and then too so I can go whip up an easy to use CMS - unless you want to take that off my hands too. :)

This is what I'm asking for out of league reps

E-mail to WFTDA after sanctioned game (and only sanctioned games):

Subject: Away Team/Home Team Score

Away Team 100, Home Team 150

Send

You'll be going to the after party 10 seconds later than usual. I'm not asking for the world, I'm asking for such a simple task, it's stupid that it's not already being done.

who do you think "the WFTDA" is though?

You are assuming there is someone on the other end ready to take that score and enter it....or that a system has been built already to automate this process. Btw, I am "the WFTDA". So should I email myself? :)

Have a chat with DNN about how much it takes for them to get their system working just to get scores and bouts up here. I just entered one bout on Derbymatic - it took me 10 minutes to get all the info up correctly and checked.

Anyway I am done. I don't think you were getting my point really.

Let me get this straight

The sports world is supposed to take roller derby seriously and the main organization for roller derby doesn't even have someone that's in charge of keeping an official score database? I guess I just don't get it. I hear all this talk about how no one shows roller derby any respect, and how roller derby should be in the Olympics or the X-Games, and local papers are horrible because they don't cover derby in their sports page (beyond by day, by night articles). I don't want to put words in your mouth because maybe you don't think these things but I know many people do. People seem to be putting the cart before the horse. The most important thing in sports is the final score. How is that something that is getting overlooked?

I guess my point is this: why do 100 hours of work to look like an amateur all-volunteer organization when you can work 101 hours and look like a professional organization? I'm not saying that completely new huge processes should be put in place, I'm just asking for processes that already happen to add one more minor step (post online). Why is all of this work being done if no one outside of WFTDA reps has access to it? It seems like a pretty big waste of time. Honestly, if I were you, I'd be more angry that I'm doing all this work that no one can see than be mad at someone for asking to see the result of that hard work.

yep, that's someone's job

but they are not allowed to make scores public until the sheet that was signed by both team captains is scanned and received. Sorry the internal processes are not fast enough for you, but Sanctioning is very concerned with being thorough.

Doesn't make a lot of sense with DNN scores on the website

So, it's better posting scores on WFTDA.com from a third party organization that could be getting these scores from a fan on twitter or facebook (not a criticism of DNN, just making an observation) than to post a score from an official WFTDA league rep? I'm all for taking time and being thorough but there's no harm in making a note that says "scores are unofficial" (which isn't even on the website now) and posting them immediately following the game.

nitpicky

Pretty positive I put in my very first post that the WFTDA works with DNN to verify those scores. The fact is, DNN (god bless them) has a system that took them years to work out. Sanctioning does it's part by trying to double check the information or give access to DNN reporters to get that confirmed information (thereby making them "official").

Obviously, it's not perfect but as Hurt said it takes hundreds of volunteers. When you don't have the luxury of hundreds of volunteers, it seems silly to re-invent a perfectly working wheel.

I want to be done with this conversation

but come on. The WFTDA doesn't have hundreds of volunteers? I know it's not going to happen overnight but it's not that difficult for a league rep to send a 5 word e-mail. It really isn't. If they're already doing it for DNN, they should be doing it for the organization that is actually in charge of the game.

It actually seems like you're adding extra work: DNN gets a score from who-knows-what source. DNN posts online. WFTDA takes DNN's score. WFTDA confirms that score with the leagues involved, I'm assuming. WFTDA posts online. That seems pretty backwards with a bunch of time and energy being wasted.

My way: League sends score to WFTDA. WFTDA posts online. DNN and everyone else get score from WFTDA.

not how it works.

and that's all I have to say about that.

So yeah, please be done making assumptions about these processes. People have probably thought of these ideas and just maybe tested them out.

be part of the solution!

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

My way: League sends score to WFTDA. WFTDA posts online. DNN and everyone else get score from WFTDA.

I think what you are missing is who the WFTDA are. They are not a big sporting organisation, they are volunteers, skaters from leagues all over the US and in fact the World, as there are also non-US leagues. WFTDA isn't a big organisation with someone sat at a computer 24 hours a day just waiting with baited breath to input scores at any time of day that someone sends them in. That's not even what WFTDA reps*DO*. DNN do a great service in getting these scores out to the people, leaving WFTDA reps to concentrate on what WFTDA reps need to be doing.

Games are probably being played right now in a huge breadth of time zones, not just the one that suits you. With major league sports with sponsorship and whole companies and a gazillion TV stations given over to reporting them 24/7, of COURSE you can get football (soccer to you!) or baseball/basketball/motor racing etc etc results as they happen. Roller Derby isn't yet a hugely well recognised sport, it's profile is entirely down to the skaters and people like those who run DNN who do this only for love of derby, not for money or fame or any sort of reward. You seem to imply that we'll never be a "proper" sport if we can't report our scores instantly - I think this is putting the cart before the horse to be honest. We'll never be able to report our scores instantly until there's enough worldwide mass interest in rollerderby to fund paid positions where someone sit at a computer 24 hours a day just waiting with baited breath to input scores at any time of day that someone sends them in. And we are simply not there yet.

Roller girls have had to be patient to build this sport up over the years, and I hope our fans can be patient too, and work *with* us to build the sport! If you want that to happen, you could always volunteer to work on a stats team for your local league and be a part of it.

Games aren't played 24/7

Believe me, I know who makes up the WFTDA (and everything they do is greatly appreciated) but that doesn't excuse the small little minor extra steps that can be made to make it look professional rather than extra curricular and give fans/skaters the information they want. Other than games that are played in Honolulu and London (which is a very very small number) and big events (which WFTDA would probably have someone at anyway) 80-90% or more of WFTDA sanctioned games are played on Saturday nights. Even with time zone differences, almost all of those scores would be coming in a 3-4 hour window. We're not talking 24/7 here, we're talking 3-4 hours per week that one person would need to be near a laptop or smartphone. I don't think that's too much to ask especially when you consider that DNN can instantly report many scores and they don't have the power to require anyone to communicate those scores to them like the WFTDA does and they're covering a helluva lot more games.

Volume

It's the volume of the stats that makes this task herculean.

I'm part of the Windy City Rollers and we have an AMAZING stats crew and that info is integrated into our website so seamlessly.
Check it: http://www.windycityrollers.com/home-teams/hells-belles/ (Scroll down and you see the home season's worth of team stats)

However, we are one league of about 80 skaters, with fairly consistent rosters during the home season and the same stats team doing stats for the season.

Just as there's a wide range of leagues out there, there's a wider range of stats crews.

What stats would you like to see? And please be specific... (and know that WCR's stats crew spends a good amount of time just getting our stats onto the site after our games, so I don't think that that level of detail can be expected at this time across the org)
What other team info would you like to see?
How would you like them presented?

Also-- any feedback on how the WFTDA could be better is welcome. But you're better off addressing it to us directly.
http://www.wftda.com/contact
Thank you!

xo,
Loco Chanel
Windy City Rollers
WFTDA Board of Directors

I don't actually have

I don't actually have anything to add. I just want to see how skinny we can get these comment containers if we keep nesting.

As far as publicizing stats goes, yeah I want a pony too. I can tell you that DNN's bouts & scores tracking volunteers have their hands full already just getting final scores up each week. You can imagine the state of our submission box every Sunday. Someday we'll progress to more stats (in fact we've already built the infrastructure for it), but it's an enormous data-entry task.

Is there nothing

to stop one word on each line? Or will these continue to nest forever?

Has this ever been attempted

Has this ever been attempted before? I don't want to blow up DNN or anything.

There's nothing that I know

There's nothing that I know of that should stop these from thinning out to a single character wide. Obviously this kind of threaded presentation has its limits. But what it loses in readability, it makes up for in comedy.

doing my part

Gnosis, I totally agree on the comedic value. Here is my contribution towards SINGLE CHARACTER WIDE posts.

What happens

when a single character is too wide?

Black holes, bending time

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

when a single character is too wide?

When single characters are too wide ...time and space bend, Spiderman becomes a musical and kittens cry.

Also

DRD and Charm City start skating forward.

What?

Ridiculous

Come on, now...

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

Ridiculous

...let's not all start getting silly.

They finally really did it!

You MANIACS! You BLEW IT UP!

Oh, this is so awesome.

Oh, this is so awesome. //TODO: modify nesting code to flatten out at some point.

let's post forward! *clap clap clap clap clap*

EOM

Gnosis: I believe Wordpress' plugin Brian's Nested Comments only nests 3 deep.

WWEEeee!

WWEEeee!

Sweet. But this site is

Sweet. But this site is built on Drupal! I can hack the comment module, though, or probably someone already did.

I meant as a recommended practice

Not to grab the code itself.

Thank you

For a reasoned and non-defensive response. I'm finding a well thought out response like this to be very rare. I will submit some ideas through the proper channels but I also think it's important to have public discussion so others can express their ideas as well.

I really think four things are required from the WFTDA to allow not only fans to have the ability to follow the sport but also allow journalists and news organizations the ability to actually do their job without having to send a thousand e-mails to gather all the information that they need which at this point is impossible (e.g. writing an article for that night's or the next day's news cycle using the official stats and final score (ps if they can't do this, they won't write that article and roller derby will only get fluff pieces in the entertainment section for all of eternity)).

I don't think what the organization should be doing is too much more than what's happening now. I basically see it as this: you're painting a room so you're already doing all the work (keeping track of games, scores, stats, etc) but you're not doing the extra 20 minutes of work to make the paint job look well done and professional (posting/sending out so fans/media can use it). You just started painting and didn't do any prep work so you're getting paint all over the molding and it looks like crap when all you have to do is put some tape down before you start and it will look like you paid someone to do it when you're done painting. It just seems ridiculous not to put some freaking tape down and make your room look great.

WFTDA needs to have a schedule of upcoming games
WFTDA needs to post scores of past games
WFTDA needs to publicly release stats of past games
WFTDA needs to send releases for major events/news items
WFTDA should be doing these things as quickly as possible

That's all that needs to be done to look like a professional well oiled machine. The Windy City stats are great but the WFTDA doesn't need to go through the trouble of compiling season stats, just release the Bout Summary sheet from that StatsBook after each individual game. Putting season stats together is a job for DNN or Flat Track Stats or someone else but they can't do that without the game statistics. As far as releasing those stats, I've seen everything from txt, to pdf, to excel, to html. I've seen them only sent out as a release and I've seen them posted on the organization's website. I think posting them on WFTDA's website and sending a release is the best solution but I understand outputting a txt file from excel and attaching that to an e-mail that you send to the media is much easier and less time consuming.

I understand the logic behind using DNN to do certain things to alleviate some pressure but frankly, that's not good enough. When ESPN calls because they want to put a fullscreen in Sportscenter after the national championship game, what will WFTDA's response be? Watch the boutcast on DNN and keep your own stats? Basically, you need to dress for the job that you want to have. If I'm wrong and the WFTDA doesn't care about being seen as a legitimate well-respected organization that runs a legitimate well-respected sport then just tell me and I won't say another word. But, it seems like you guys have some pretty lofty goals but if you aren't laying the groundwork to achieve those goals then it's pretty silly to think you can get to where you want to be. So, basically what I'm saying is that no news organization will respect the WFTDA if you tell them that they have to get their information from DNN and when they want to put that information in their show (which is either that night or the next day, not two weeks later) all they can get is a final score and if they're lucky, there was a boutcast that they can spend hours reading through and maybe they can piece together some semi-accurate stats they can use.

Ultimately, I'm trying to help. I didn't want any of my messages to come off like I'm attacking the WFTDA. The original response was just supposed to be a snarky post and that's it, I wasn't really expecting it to go this far. Even if you completely ignore my ideas, I'll continue to support roller derby, it'll just be a lot harder because I'll have to wait for scores, not have any stats to comb over, and won't know about players that are suspended until I notice that they're not in the game for some reason and do a little research and I'll never actually know why they were suspended.

WOW, Chuck

I really don't see the problem with DNN being the go-to for upcoming bouts and scores. It is very obvious that they are working with WFTDA and they are doing a damn fine job of it.

I also don't see why we have to everything like everyone else to be taken seriously since we already ARE a legitimate sport. They'll catch up.

I really don't think you understand that none of us have a single extra moment on our hands to take care of this, we are volunteers, athletes, and most of us have to work. Really, all of us are maxed....REALLY!

So, no, I will not take the time to tape the base boards, but I'm pretty good at free-handing it. It's better to get it painted and do my best than to not paint it at all. And it really hurts my feelings when you come into my house criticizing my paint job that I was so very proud of :(

They won't catch up

Uma Plata wrote:

They'll catch up.

That is completely untrue. No one in the sports media is just going to magically start respecting roller derby (edit: okay, that's not true because I'm one of those people, but it's happening so slowly that maybe in twenty years there might be one person at each media organization that cares) unless you guys do something to gain that respect. The status quo is obviously not good enough.

Again, I can live with what you're doing now (I won't be happy but whatever) as long as no one complains about roller derby media coverage ever again.

Uma Plata wrote:

So, no, I will not take the time to tape the base boards, but I'm pretty good at free-handing it. It's better to get it painted and do my best than to not paint it at all.

What's the point in painting if you never go in the room and let anyone see it?

Uh no.

I'm the guy who probably enters 80-90% of DNN's scores and bout set-ups.

What we get "instantly" is generally bouts we're boutcasting. That means we've sent someone there, or recruited volunteers to be there doing a text play-by-play of the bouts.

It's also WFTDA leagues texting sanctioned bout scores to Hurt. That's the source of much of the rest of the scores entries.

DNN gets those texts because WFTDA requires them to send them to us. So in effect, WFTDA is doing EXACTLY what you're saying they aren't. They're just smart enough to have gotten a "media partner" to do some of the lifting. And if things worked the way you want them to two things would happen. I'd be doing pretty much all of the data entry, and when my league skates an away game the scores might not make it to DNN until Sunday evening or Monday. No thanks.

The only downside to this system is that often WFTDA leagues skate doubleheaders, and after texting in the sanctioned bout's score they figure we're not interested in their B team or intraleague scores. We are.

As for the rest of the leagues out there, that involves a lot of me bugging people to post their scores on their Facebook fan pages. Sometimes they don't answer, so I figure they maybe had an embarrassing loss and ask the other team's league.

Those of them who email them to scores@derbynewsnetwork.com make me super-happy.

Third-party for the big boys

The "big leagues" also use third parties to track and distribute their stats. Stats, Inc., is one of the major players for this: http://www.stats.com/

And since I'm a soccer lover, I'll throw out Actim as well: http://www.premierleague.com/page/ActimFAQs

Stats.com is just a distributor

Stats.com is just a distributor. The big leagues still produce their own statistics, they just give them to Stats because of their infrastructure that's already in place to distribute those stats live for television production, gametrackers, AP, media, and fans. They're basically the txt file/e-mail of the solution I posted above. I would have recommended Stats if I thought there was any way WFTDA could afford it. Maybe Dakstats but I still doubt it.

The other big difference is that these organizations have contracts written in blood and are paid a lot of money. There may be a contract between DNN and WFTDA, I have no idea, but I would hope if that were the case, DNN would have required a higher level of consistency in score reporting. Without a contract, DNN could stop reporting scores whenever they want and now suddenly we'd be in the ridiculous situation of having absolutely no one reporting WFTDA scores at all.

extra curricular

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

that doesn't excuse the small little minor extra steps that can be made to make it look professional rather than extra curricular and give fans/skaters the information they want.

Therein lies the rub - at the moment it *is* extra curricular for all of us, fitting derby into our jobs, lives, families and friends, who are often sorely neglected as it is. We are not yet a professional sport or at the stage where we can do all of the things taken for granted by fans of professional sports.

One day, perhaps, but until that time we have to be patient, and accept that we are working towards that, but that it is just not practicable to provide that at the moment.

Again, I suggest if you are that passionate you find a local league and ask if they need help with their stats, the more people we have working with us the more we can do. It's better than getting frustrated that we're not doing enough!

I think the main problem is

I think the main problem is that you have no idea how any of this works. You obviously do not know the stats process (and ignored my comment explaining it), don't know the process for sending scores to DNN/WFTDA and so it is really hard to take any of your criticisms seriously. There has to be an INFRASTRUCTURE before these things can happen. We are building this infrastructure as we speak. If we rolled it out before it were ready, you'd probably complain more.

Currently, the Stats committee has a grand total of about 6 people plus a couple worker bees. We're not all just sitting around twiddling our thumbs. We're receiving, verifying (you would not believe the amount of data entry errors we have to fix!), storing and also making revisions to the statsbook. I'd kill for some more members to help implement my dreams, specifically programmer types, but right now we have to work with what we've got.

ps, we used to have an account for leagues to send scores to. that was one of my jobs. problem was, everyone was too accustomed to sending scores to DNN that they never sent them to us. We then decided that there is no point in reinventing the wheel and since DNN already had the infrastructure, we're working with them.

--Evie McSkeevy
WFTDA Stats co-chair

So, basically...

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

From my outsider's perspective, it seems like the WFTDA is taking the stance that DNN is good enough and there's no reason do any better which is just embarrassingly untrue.

I'd love to know what the infrastructure is that you're building but I guess the WFTDA isn't accountable to anyone but the skaters so you don't have to tell me anything. Maybe my time estimations were off and stats are impossible to get out in less than a week. Fine. That doesn't discount the fact that you guys are doing a ridiculous amount of work for very little reward. Great, league reps can get their hands on the stats if they ask for them. Is that really worth all the time you say that it takes to put those stats together?

On the stats.

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

Having leagues submit scores/stats within a half hour of the completion of a sanctioned game and having those scores/stats online within an hour of that game is EASY

Seriously, it isn't easy.

How simplistic do you think our statistics are? Just scores per jams and the names of the jammers? That's all that Jerry's league probably tracked in the 50s, 60s, and 70s (unless the numbers and records were made up).

We go beyond all that. WAY beyond that.

For each jam, the scorekeeper tracks the jam number (or if it's a star pass), the jammer's number, whether she was lead jammer. Whether she lost the eligibility to become lead jammer. Whether she called off the jam. Whether she was injured. Whether she never completed her first pass. Then they track the number of points she scored in each pass and in total. And for each pass how many of the points were ghost points and what kind (down to which position skater was in the box). This is typically the quickest and easiest one to enter.

The penalty tracker tracks not just the number of penalties each skater gets (classic roller derby, FlatTrackStats) nor even just how many of each penalty (WFTDA two-three years ago). At present they tally which penalty each skater got, which jam number in the period it was called on, one section for minors, another for majors, and another for expulsions and foul-outs.

I've saved the toughest one for last. The unsung lineup trackers record the jam number (or if it's a star pass), then the skater numbers of the pivot, the blockers, and the jammer. Hopefully in the 30 seconds before the jam starts. That's done to generate defensive as well as offensive stats. Without a lineup tracker, you'd only have jammer stats. Most skaters are not jammers, so that would kinda suck.

During the jam they track the current pass (not lap) of the opposing team's jammer, and use that number to record when each penalized skater went into and came out of the penalty box. The data entry for these four sheets of data is the most difficult and time consuming of the NSO positions' sheets. If you typo a number (or the lineup tracker left it blank), that skater does not get credit for being in a jam nor do the results of the jam impact her stats as they should. If a skater is recorded twice in a jam (by the lineup tracker or the stat geek doing the data entry) that skater gets more credit than she deserves, and another skater gets none.

A typical bout has about 40 jams. Since there's two teams to record 200 positions for, that's an entry of roughly 400 skater numbers (1-4 digits alphanumeric). And depending on the number of penalties, a whole lot of 0s, 1s, 2s, 3s, etc for current pass box tracking.

I won't even get into the optional sheets that one MAY record data for.

Sorry for writing War and Peace here. Are you getting the point that the average human being can't get this all entered and submitted in a half hour? Do you realize that even DNN tends to get kicked out of a tournament or bout within a few minutes of the game's end? What you are expecting would require someone (damn, that'd be me?) to leave the venue after working two to four hours (or more, with set up and tear down), go home, do an hour or two of data entry and accuracy checking, submit the stats and then try and make it to the after party.

*~[Grand Poobah
Roc City Roller Derby
WFTDA Stats Revisioning

I guess I don't understand

Why it's necessary to write it down instead of type it in? I personally type WAY faster than I write. You're adding an unnecessary step and if you're looking at a verticle computer screen in front of you, you can keep an eye on the action as you type, rather than having to put your head down to look at a horizontal paper. Like I said, I've done stats for football and basketball and that's how we did it.

I'm sure these are questions that have already been asked so I know I'm not breaking new ground here but I just don't see how pencil and paper is a better solution than a keyboard.

Either way, though, even if stats have to take another 24 hours (or 2 weeks) to come out, it doesn't matter at this point because they are nowhere for the public to see. I'm more after at least being able to see the stats way before I start complaining about how long it takes for them to come out (the timing was just something I didn't think would be that hard if the stats people typed as the game went on).

And, the other part of my post, the final score, is easy to submit in half an hour.

Why it's necessary to write it down instead of type it in?

I'm guessing that a pencil and clipboard are cheaper than a laptop. Many, perhaps most, teams can't afford to buy a few extra laptops for stats data entry (most already need one to run a scoreboard projector). Maybe they have fans/volunteers who can bring laptops in, but anytime you rely on someone bringing something in something will go wrong and they or the equipment won't show or work properly.

Yes, I'd love to see stats published. My dad can still quote batting averages from Red Sox hitters from the 1930's. Someday I want to argue about how Heffer's point differentials make her a smarter jammer than your jammer who had a higher Average Points per Bout.

That day isn't here yet. Until then I'll go to bouts, watch them on DNN, and occasionally marvel at the fact that these athletes have the coolest clubs, that they participate in these amazing contests and, most of all, that they let me watch.

Mimimum 6 Laptops..thats why!

BigChuck,
At the very least your suggestion would require a league to provide 6 laptops to the trackers. Hardly a reasonable request don't you think? There are 2 scorekeepers,2 position trackers, 2 penalty trackers and that doesn't even include action trackers or P. Box manager and jam timers who also track data. When it's all said and done and all the sheets have been reconciled and signed off on it takes me about 1.5 hours to enter all the raw data and I generally have it to both teams within 24-48 hours of the bout. But final scores are submitted to DNN and Derbyissport Yahoo Group same day.

What the other dudes said.

What the other dudes said. Also, having a bunch of laptops in the center of the track is a recipe for disaster. I've worked many a time as a NSO and I've gotten knocked down by either falling refs or wayward skaters and adding an expensive laptop to that would blow.

Some leagues, like Rat City, have a fantastic system where their NSOs are all outside the track but not leagues don't have the capabilities for that set-up.

i like my "fake" sport just fine

Rollerfan wrote:

Well in real sports like the NFL, NBA, and even golf for godsakes.......when you suspend a player, especially a susper star, it is news and you announce it and then fans and the sites talk about it.

Actually, I prefer that our talk of derby stick to the sport and not the drama or interpersonal politics. I realize the irony of making this comment about a sport full of assumed personae, but I'd like it if we stayed away from the BS of discussing our personal lives and our personal habits and we don't go down the path of raking our skaters over the coals a la someone like Tiger Woods.

It's worth reminding ourselves again that our sport and WFTDA as an organization is still young, and unlike the established sports leagues you mention, we do have a hand in determining where this sport goes and how we handle situations as they arise. Maybe we get mad press releases from the NFL/NBA/MLB about whatever happens with players, but something tells me the players don't get to weigh in directly on actions and consequences. Hence we are left with lots of bloviating on the interwebs after the fact.

I also realize the irony of making this next comment here on DNN (because hello, I love me some boutcasts and textcasts) but I do remember the days before the internet and all the chatter about why shit happens. I wasn't there when someone (WFTDA? Cincy themselves? A combination of the two?) made the decision about Sadie. I'd rather not dwell on it. Yes, I realize how awesome Sadie is and the contribution she makes to her team on and off the track. I still loved seeing Cincy kick some ass, and I actually liked how tastefully everyone handled the situation.

It wasn't Cincy's idea

The entire Cincinnati team wearing Sadistic Sadie as the name on their jersey seemed to make a pretty clear statement to me and it wasn't "We agree with WFTDA's decision to suspend Sadie".

Sending out a press release

Sending out a press release notifiying news organizations and fans as to Sadie's suspension has absolutely nothing to with releasing details of anyone's personal life. The suspension is very public. Here's all the WFTDA had to do:

"FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: SADISTIC SADIE SUSPENDED FOR SIX MONTHS

Cincinnati, OH - Sadistic Sadie of the Cincinnati Rollergirls will be suspended for six months starting immediately. Her services will not be available this weekend for Cincinnati's appearance in the North Central Regional Playoffs. Sadie's suspension is due to ________"

Fill in the blank. That's all we're asking for. It's like the WFTDA thought people weren't going to find out or something.

14000

ohh, I'm the 14000 comment.

Please

tell me there is going to be archived video. Work sux...

No, but we're archiving these heated arguments!

G. No-Evil wrote:

tell me there is going to be archived video. Work sux...

They are however selling DVDs of the video from this tournament. Note: Bout number on the DVDs is (I'd hope) going by the numbers of the bouts on the schedule, not the order they happened in. Maybe print out the brackets off the WFTDA page for the tournament?

We love our Double D's!!!

Let's go Dairyland Dolls! Show Cincin the incredible power of DAIRY PRODUCTS! MOO MOO bitch!

Three months really isn't that long...

I am not affiliated with the WFTDA and I have no idea what happened behind the scenes, but I think it's unfair to imply that the timing of the suspension is suspicious. I can speak from personal experience on a team and league level that sometimes, the discussion of a suspension can takes weeks and even months. It can be such a lengthy process. You have meetings, discussions, voting, tabling the issue if you can't come to a consensus without more information, delays, things with higher priority coming up, and appeals. It's exhausting and it is not always a quick decision.

re: Three months

What makes 3 months look suspicious is what Fireman Bill pointed out earlier and I didn't know. Cincinnati played Brew City just days after the suspension was announced and they two were seated 4 and 5 going into regionals and Grace Killey plays for Brew City. This allows not time to appeal or get it corrected before Regionals with appeals. That looks fishy for something that happened in June 1.

That could all just bad timing the unfortunate side effect of having actve skaters run the league. Even that I could get but this gag order is just stupid. Talk about it people. WFTDA suspended a skater for something that did not happen on the track. Should they be able to do that? Cincy suspended Sadie from playing their final home game. Does WFTDA have the power to do this for something that happened off track? How many of your skaters have something stupid they did off track and were lucky enough not to have any one notice?

I just don't get why we cannot tak about it. That is why the conspiracies are flying.

the theories are understandable

I've had some opportunity to speak with plenty of WFTDA folks this weekend, naturally, and what I've gathered is this: the organization's bylaws stipulate that everything about their grievance process is confidential. It's not that there's a gag order around this specific situation -- it's a global restriction against discussing these actions.

Changing it would require a vote of the membership to amend that part of the bylaws. That, also, is something that will take quite a bit of time, for the same reason the issue we're discussing took time: volunteers with day jobs have limited time, and hurrying on important decisions often leads to just another inadequate solution.

Confidentiality in disciplinary process is the kind of thing that sounds really good at the time when you're creating an all-volunteer peer organization, but you don't discover the unintended consequences until a specific situation comes up. Think about all the ways this has happened in ruleset evolution. Same phenomenon. You can't predict the future with perfection.

For DNN's part, we're patient because we've been deeply involved. Both Justice and I started as volunteers for some of the earliest leagues, and spent a couple years intimately involved with that kind of structure. In a very real way, though, these growing pains are the price of freedom. Nobody else has built a sport to even this level, ever, while keeping the reins in the hands of the participants. I think it's a worthy tradeoff.

In any case, we decided some time ago that we're just gonna leave derby drama to others, and concentrate on the sport. Think we don't cover an aspect of it adequately? We probably agree with you. Just think of it as us leaving that niche open for others to write about in whatever forum they choose... there's a whole lot of internet out there just waiting for you!

Grace Killy is a very

Grace Killy is a very respectable lady and would not have been elected the President of the WFTDA if she were not.

As the saying goes...

As the saying goes, power corrupts. Both individuals and organizations.

Re: As the saying goes...

voight.kampff.machine wrote:

As the saying goes, power corrupts. Both individuals and organizations.

Um, wow. Have you even met Grace? Have you ever spoken with her?

Re: Hurt

Thanks, that is probably the best and most logical comment I have seen so far. They really do need to let the local teams talk to the fans about what is going on. When you get serious fans we get very passionatte about out favorite skaters and when you tell us we can't see them skate any more and it is none of out business why, well that kind of pisses us off. Hopefully there is a lot of talk amongst WFTDA on how to handle it better.

indeed

Rollerfan wrote:

Hopefully there is a lot of talk amongst WFTDA on how to handle it better.

I'd say that's a VERY safe bet.

Holy crap...

This is my first WFTDA tournament cycle, and I have totally enjoyed all the action this weekend, and this is only the first week of regional play. Can't wait to see the rest of it.

Please remove nose from business

Rollerfan, I just don't get why you believe that someone else's personal information is your business. Sure...we're all curious! It's juicy gossip! But really...that's all. As much as I am curious, I know it will not change my life, my day tomorrow, or how I play my sport. Will your life change with this information? Your burning, quite persistent desire implies as much, which I find to be slightly unnerving.

Honestly, I wish you would respect her privacy and back off. Being an athlete does not automatically make your business public. Wouldn't you want the same considerations for privacy if you were in this situation?

Let's talk about hyper-media, the effect of social software on perceptions of privacy and discourse, or even privacy in an ever more global realm. Or maybe back to derby! That would all be interesting. In the meantime, please remember that Sadie probably has enough going on without being pestered for details about her personal life. Take a chill pill and move on.

-Mary that Motha OH GOD!
Philly Roller Girls

Re: Mary

The reason why I care is becuase I am a Sadie Fan and supporter and it seems unfair to me. I am not trying to be noisy in her business, I am yelling at what I see as a crappy decision. It really is not all that different than a fan screaming at a really bad call by the refs. The difference is that takes a player out for a minute. This takes a player out for six months so I am yelling louder. If one of the Cincinnati skaters asked me to back down I would. I post under the same name on Miss Print's blog for 4 years so they have my email.

I also want to be clear I want to make the sport better. You guys by default don't have the view of a fan. Way back when Cincinnati played Gem City in their first inter league bout Miss Print posted on her blog that while the game broke down into nothing but illegal take downs and ended in a huge fight, the fans proably enjoyed the show. I posted that no we really did not enjoy the show becuase watching chaos is no fun at all. The next year Cincinnati was much more focused on the sport and less on the show. I am sure myself and the other fans commenting on their blog was not the only reason, but I would like to believe them reading that the fans really did not want to see that helped push that way. Hopefully WFTDA will take the feedback the same way. It is als why I am "yelling" here. I can't yell at the refs becuase their are none. It is the only way I know as a fan to tell WFTDA it was a piece of crap call.

yeah. about that.

To briefly address some questions you asked in other posts:
Yes, WFTDA has suspended skaters before.

The only conspiracy theorist on here (that I've noticed) is you. Killy is just one person and does not have the ability to suspend skaters.

Moving on.

Would it have been a "better call" if WFTDA was able to immediately process the suspension in May? She still wouldn't be playing at regionals or any of the games leading up to now. The bulk of this suspension is during Cincy's off season anyway, so its not really a super harsh punishment. Hypothetically, she'd still be able to play in their April '11 game (looks like the first of their season). Obviously, I'm not factoring in what may or may not happen within the legal system because WFTDA has no control over that.

What I don't understand is why you're so upset that an organization would suspend a player for committing a crime. That happens in all levels of sports all the time. Pro organizations will suspend athletes before they're even convicted.

I hear your plight and saw Cincy's uniforms looking martyr-ish, but all of that seems a bit misdirected, IMO. Committees within the WFTDA didn't brainstorm on a conference call one day that it would be fun to suspend someone from interleague sanctioned play and pick a name out of a hat. Its great that you're such a loyal fan b/c derby needs more of those but really, the only person who is responsible for her current situation is Sadie herself.

re: Anna

Thank you for addressing some of my questions. That is really all I wanted, is someone to talk to me. I did not know other skaters have been suspended previously. Knowing what they were suspended for and time would make it much easier to see if this is fair or equivelant. The timing seemed lousy and the suspension too much for a white collar crime but if others had similiar suspensions in the past for similiar offenses then I could support that. Having it in the open would make a world of difference.

Lacking all of this, it looked harsh to me. It seems like what Saide was really being punished for was being well known enough that the local press picked up the story. But once again, I am missing all the background on what may have happened in the past. This may all be known to skaters but from a fan's point of view it looks like a random penalty from a governing body I know nothing about and when I asked any questions was told it was confidential and could not be shared.

Does this make sense Anna? Over the weekend I was much more pissed and emotional. Hurt's reponse actually calmed me down quite a bit. Hopefully me being calmer makes it go down better with what I really want which is just to understand what the heck happened.

Cincy Jerseys and Misinformation

I need to keep my mouth shut, but I won't allow people to continue bashing my team or dropping bits of inaccurate information that will surely foster more rumor.

Quote:

What I don't understand is why you're so upset that an organization would suspend a player for committing a crime.

I frustratingly cannot talk about the grievance, but I can talk about what the grievance is not: Sadie was NOT suspended for committing a crime.

Quote:

I hear your plight and saw Cincy's uniforms looking martyr-ish...

The team's decision to wear jerseys with "Sadistic Sadie" on the back in place of their own derby names during the first game of regionals was made as a tribute and sign of respect to a teammate, as well as the embodiment of an idea. Cincinnati has long endured (and laughed about) the presumption that the team was one-dimensional. I hope this weekend demonstrated to a lot of people that the Cincinnati Rollergirls have more than one talented skater, and that the team is competitive enough to succeed without the skills of any one particular skater. That said, you're damn right that CRG is the "Sadie Show," whether she's on the track or not. We're ALL proud and honored to be a part of her team.

By the way, for those who weren't there, the team wore matching shirts all weekend, as a proclomation of team unity, and a constant reminder of who we are and what we're all about. CRG is a tiny, little league and a close-knit family. We know who we are. Anyone. Anytime. Anywhere.

This Weekend

quad.almighty wrote:

this weekend demonstrated to a lot of people that the Cincinnati Rollergirls have more than one talented skater

I think i'll go out on a limb and state that K Lethal might be kinda good.

well..

Mary that Motha OH GOD wrote:

Being an athlete does not automatically make your business public.

Until we're all making a couple of million a year anyway, then my boring business is totally public! ;)

Girl Fawkes
CTRG/CTDQ

And people thought I could set the comment ball rolling

This is incredible that both of these subjects have gone on this long. I have no comment about Sadie, the suspension or anything like that other than I am sure it is being dealt with in the proper channels and we should just leave it at that.

No, the two things I wanted to chime in on is the whole stats sheet argument & scores. I know enough of you have seen them and they are incredibly detailed. After I saw how long it took out stats person to do them I asked "Hey, why can't we get this faster because I saw "X" team play and this was almost real-time. They had a bunch of people with laptops.." I never got to finish the thought as she just politely asked "How people did you see doing that?" I started counting for a few seconds and the idiot light went off in my head. The only reason some teams can pull that off is they have a squad of volunteers that do just that during a bout. Unpaid, undersung, hard working people who track each blocker & jammer to fill these things out as it happens. Otherwise you just have a two or 3 people using pen & paper and then having to consolidate all that into an electronic form to send in. Add in the fact it has to be checked and rechecked for accuracy and you are talking about a fair bit of time. Heck, I have spent longer typing this comment than you are thinking that stats sheet should take to do. Before anyone breaks out the "Well, the NFL/NBA/MLB/ETC seems to pull it off" card, just remember they have an ARMY of PAID people who work for each team to do that for them (plus the help of national broadcasters who have an even bigger group of paid people to also run those number at the same time).

As for scores, leagues (WFTDA or not) send them in to DNN because they... well, I can't actually say. Not for any offical reason that is. DNN was the site that started really trying to cover derby and as such it became the hub for derby news and scores. I know I have sent in a few results and then waited & waited & waited some more at times for them to pop up. Why? One so others could see how my league did and the other is the fun at the after party of passing your phone around when it finally does show up (if it makes it that night).

Everyone who helps out with DNN is not getting paid for this. Nor are the people who run the leagues or skate for them. Sure a few might have some kind of sponsorship. A pair of skates here, some wheels there and a very lucky few of found a way to make a living at derby on the equipment & derby accessory sales side of things. Not because it's just for the money. They love what they found in derby and wanted to find a way to be even more involved in it. I know I wish I could. So for something that was started by a few people in Texas to now where is it speading to hundreds of leagues on 4 continents (soon to be 5 I hope) and still volunteer based I think we are doing pretty good for ourselves, don't you?

On a lighter note...

Can we talk about all the hot derby action and awesome bouts that happened this weekend?!? Too much serious-talk!

I know what happened through out was NOT expected...I follow closely and filled out like 3 freaking brackets for our region so I was getting questions of who is playing who and all I could say was "ahhh! I don't know! I'll have to look--I didn't factor these scenarios in my brackets!!"

And now all I have to say is;

GOOOOOO NAPTOWWWNNN!!!!!

Preventing such issues in the future, and Woot!

If the WFTDA had a code of ethics posted on the website then if someone gets suspended for off the track misbehavior it would be as simple as saying "read this." Unfortunately there is not currently a posted for public viewing code of conduct (that I can find) but if there was then the argument could have stopped there.

On another subject, Whoo-Hoo! Go MNRG! You rock my freaking world!
Also Congrats to Omaha and Naptown for your pending jumps in the rankings, and Madison and Windy City for making it to the Uproar on the Lakeshore, hopefully I will be sitting track-side!

re: EvilJeffy

That is a good idea too. Thanks

I am done

A couple people emailed me some reasonable well thought out responses and made some points I had not thought of. I will now drop the subject of the suspension and just make the suggestion one last time to WFTDA that they make the process more open in the future. When someone asks for details and is told we cannot tell you, WFTDA won't let us, it makes it look like WFTDA has something to hide. This shifts the focus from the skater and her actions to WFTDA and their privacy. Thanks to the reasonable folks on here that contacted me.

I can't take it anymore!!

I've been a rabid derby fan, and a fairly devout reader of DNN, for about two years. And today is the day that I finally had to create an account so I could comment on a recap.

Justice, what do you have against Madison? It seems that every article you write about them either doesn't give them credit at all or does so begrudgingly. I was at the tournament this weekend, and what I saw yesterday was Cincy's jammers cutting the track because Dairyland's pack were doing their job so well. I also saw DD jammers flying through Cincy's pack like they weren't even there. But there's no mention of any of this; you almost make it seem like Madison was just skating around in circles waiting for Cincy to screw up. It paints an unfair picture of how hard they worked for that win, and how much they rallied after their loss to MNRG on Saturday.

Obviously, I have a bias for my hometown team, and maybe I'm the only one who feels this way about your writing. But honestly, what gives? I thought journalists were supposed to be objective.

A little Mad Rollin Credit

MRDfan1980 wrote:

I also saw DD jammers flying through Cincy's pack like they weren't even there.

Moovelous jamming by Darling Nikki and Mouse in the Cincy bout.

Damn it.

I thought I was doing a good job of hiding my deep-seated loathing of Madison!

In the interests of full disclosure, I should admit that I also have a visceral hatred for Oly, Gotham, Rocky Mountain, Texas, Charm City, Detroit, Kansas City, Boston, Philly, Minnesota (ESPECIALLY Minnesota!), Bay Area, Rat City, Rose City, Steel City, and Dallas. And I only pretend to like Montreal to keep things interesting.

Less snarky answer: this is the first WFTDA playoff tournament I've missed since 2006, since I was in Baltimore to announce on Saturday and play on Sunday. All of the recaps that I wrote for this tourney are written from a combination of watching video online and taking notes out of the live blog; some, I watched the whole thing live, others, I had to go back after the fact and essentially summarize the live blog. This is far from the ideal way to provide a recap, and is why it focuses mostly on score margins and obvious trends (like Cincy's jammer penalty troubles) and not specifics of gameplay. It Ain't At All Like Being There.

We are always looking for people willing and able to provide quick, detailed recaps, ESPECIALLY during tournaments. You seem to have a good eye for the game and an ability to write, so ... are you planning to go to the Championships, perhaps?

Eastern Regionals

I'll be there, Justice. I'd be glad to help out but I don't own a laptop. I could probably borrow one for the trip, though.

Baby it's COLD up there.

Justice Feelgood Marshall wrote:

In the interests of full disclosure, I should admit that I also have a visceral hatred for [...] Minnesota (ESPECIALLY Minnesota!)

You're just bitter that you came to Minnesota in December 2007 and all you brought were miniskirts and thin tights.

In Justice's defense. Also, the author of MRD/MNRG.

...it was pretty cold that day. I'd totally have visceral hatred for the great state of Minnesota if I had to face December in a miniskirt.

Also...I'd like to note to the reader that the MN/Madison bout's recap was written by none other than MRD's scribe, Geoffrey Saucer.

May I suggest that there is no man who exists that was more stunned by that loss by Geoffrey. I had the honor of working that bout with him (he writing for DNN and MRD, me covering for the omnibus Blood and Thunder article and MNRG), and we had a delightful two hours of noting the ups and downs of our respective teams. It wasn't until the 30-minute drought that Saucer started to get really, really nervous.

I look forward to reading his recap after I write my own for MNRG.

Saucer Speaks

Ten days after the fact, if anyone cares . . .

I think Justice did a great, fair job with the CRG/MRD bout. I had a hard time being objective with this game. I was nursing an oncoming panic attack most of Sunday. I remember burying my head in my hands after Ouchocinco's 29 points. Thank you to the PVRG skater who said, "It will be all right."

Initially, I felt both teams were a bit out of control. Both teams accrued too many jammer penalties, but in hindsight it's clear Cincy made some crucial mistakes in addition to their penalties and short jammer rotation. For the MRD fans, I felt Madison didn't exert a control of the play the way I know they can.

Writing the MNRG/MRD recap was very difficult for me. I was pretty crushed and sorry for our skaters, but I do feel the end product was very fair. I can't say enough how hard it can be to relive a bout right afterword and try not to take sides. I tend not re-read caps after I give them to an editor, so, Justice, you see the typos in there?

Carson Wilder was a big help in giving me insight into MNRG's play. It as fun to share the platform with a fellow recapper, a side show to the side show. We were a dueling mix of enthusiasm and cynicism for our own teams. We did not resort to pencil fights or bashing each other with our laptops.

Thanks to DNN for giving me the space to bring you the bouts hours later.

I've only got one word for this effort

Justice Feelgood Marshall wrote:

Less snarky answer: this is the first WFTDA playoff tournament I've missed since 2006, since I was in Baltimore to announce on Saturday and play on Sunday. All of the recaps that I wrote for this tourney are written from a combination of watching video online and taking notes out of the live blog; some, I watched the whole thing live, others, I had to go back after the fact and essentially summarize the live blog. This is far from the ideal way to provide a recap, and is why it focuses mostly on score margins and obvious trends (like Cincy's jammer penalty troubles) and not specifics of gameplay. It Ain't At All Like Being There.

Can I just register how flat-out heroic that is? Trying to write recaps for the Australia/NZ tournament made me want to tear my hair out, and I was THERE and saw most of the critical games. I can't even conceive of trying to do it remotely. Heroic.

Justice Feelgood Marshall wrote:

We are always looking for people willing and able to provide quick, detailed recaps, ESPECIALLY during tournaments. You seem to have a good eye for the game and an ability to write, so ... are you planning to go to the Championships, perhaps?

Throw me in there as someone happy to help if'n I manage to scrape the cash together. I can't promise to spell American, though.

Please don't

Beck, I swear to god, if you ever start spelling American, you're fired. Can you make it to SC Regionals, perhaps?

Spelling

One of my professors is making me! I am incensed. Doubly so because I can't think of a synonym for that which I can spell in Austrayyan (antagonised?).

Maybe on SC. It presents a different set of challenges. I'm going to SOMETHING, though. You can probably hear me digging my heels in on that from way over there.

Antagonized. General rule -

Antagonized. General rule - change the s into a z and you've gone American.

(spelling help from the fellow Austrayyan who gets shitty when MS Word has the US dictionary turned on which automatically z-ises lots of words)

Justice hates us, too

He never says how rad we are because he's always talking about us playing his teams. Its all "the boys are so bitchin, boys boys boys" every preview. GOD! So don't feel bad, Madison, Oly, Rocky, et al. DANG JUSTICE!!!

Congrats to the whole NC!

Thank you Brew City for a great tournament this weekend! You all worked and played so hard. Thank you to all the teams in the NC for bringing top notch derby to the field and kicking off this year's tournament season with hard hitting and exciting bouts. I think our whole region has a lot to feel great about right now.

And, in conclusion...

WHAT??? IT'S AN OUTRAGE I TELL YOU!!!

Naptown vs Detroit recap?

I know you're writing them from archives and you're super duper busy so I am truly just curious - is the Naptown/Detroit recap coming eventually or is that one just getting skipped due to time constraints?

How about those close bouts?

I'd be interested in perusing a comparison of score differentials between this year's NC tournament and last year's. Seems to me that the main complaint from last year was the amount of blowouts during regional play. NC was full of upsets and nail biters this year. That was some good derby. Way to bring it and keep it spicy NC!

And thank you, BCB, for putting on one helluva tournament.

I kept running home during

I kept running home during bouts i thought would not be competitive and the joke was always on me when i returned to see what i'd missed. Indeed, a tip of the marching band poobah hat to the BCBs for another job well done.

Say what, RevNorb?

revnorb wrote:

I kept running home during bouts i thought would not be competitive and the joke was always on me when i returned to see what i'd missed. Indeed, a tip of the marching band poobah hat to the BCBs for another job well done.

A marching band poobah HAT? It's a fez, man. And it ain't in the marching band. We're driving behind them in little tiny cars or on minibikes.

Rev Norb's hat was a...

"Order of the Water-buffalo" style grand poobah hat. There's got to be pictures somewhere.

"GOINK GOINK GOINK MISTER

"GOINK GOINK GOINK MISTER FLINTSTONE!"

My Grand Poobah hat, with my

My Grand Poobah hat, with my head included, and a Vince/John bonus: http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/revnorb/norbVINCEjohn.jpg

The Grand Poobah, Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo: http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/revnorb/poobah-702043.jpg

I guess i need a bluer hat, at that.

Aha!

Grace Killy wrote:

"Order of the Water-buffalo" style grand poobah hat. There's got to be pictures somewhere.

A rival lodge to my own Loyal Order of Leopards. This could go down like Crips vs Bloods back in the day. Just sayin'.

The tiny cars are glorious

The trick to that is...

swag wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJpdG75_AYA

The trick to driving one of those is, when you're doing a drive-by, AIM UPWARD. You can't take out the Kiwanis and Fraternal Order of Eagles by knee-capping them.

tournament point differentials

last year's nc regional playoffs average point differential was 64.07, this year's nc regional playoffs average point differential was 50.53.

of all of 2009's tournaments, the nc regional playoffs had the closest average point differential. this includes the 2009 championships.

Surprised

masterbates wrote:

of all of 2009's tournaments, the nc regional playoffs had the closest average point differential. this includes the 2009 championships.

This surprises me somewhat, given the memorably-close final and Boston's close win for 3rd in last year's East regional.

Not to diss the rest of the Eastern teams

...but man, 2009 Eastern Regionals were Massive Blowout City until the last three games (counting the men's expo that immediately preceded the Boston / Charm third place game). Up to that point, the closest game was a 52 point spread, with over half of the games being a 99 point difference or more:

(4E) Carolina 125, (6E) Providence 73
(8E) Connecticut 156, (10E) Dominion 57
(3E) Philly 149, (7E) Charm City 74
(1E) Gotham 154, (11E) Boston 53
(7E) Steel City 222, (9E) DC 56
(4E) Carolina 252, (10E) Dominion 44
(6E) Providence 142, (8E) Connecticut 57
(9E) DC 139, (8E) Connecticut 70
(7E) Steel City 237, (10E) Dominion 30
(1E) Gotham 185, (6E) Providence 25
(3E) Charm City 213, (9E) DC 28
2E) Philly 219, (7E) Steel City 50
(5E) Boston 112, (4E) Carolina 40

Frankly, part of what made Gotham / Philly so memorable for those in attendance was that we were all totally starved for ANY close game and then they unexpectedly gave us one of the best games ever played.

Praise from a remote viewer

I couldn't be in Green Bay this weekend so I was one of the 600-1000 who watched parts on-line, and I have to say the coverage was very good. I thought folks here would be interested in observations from a fan who couldn't attend in person:

* It is far, far easier to follow the action with an elevated camera angle; IMO this should be the only choice when there is action on the track. The trackside shots are nice for between-jam atmosphere, but like a football game it's nearly impossible to cover the action from the sideline. I noticed this in particular near the end of the Windy-Cincy bout, when Cincy started slowing the pack at the start--for me it was really hard to tell what was going on.

* An occasional two-shot of the announcers during a timeout would be nice (I have no idea what Val Capone looks like). Also a pan of the benches/crowd would provide a sense of the atmosphere.

* I personally would like to hear more crowd noise and a lower volume on the announcers (is there a crowd mic?). I'm certain it is very, very difficult to hear on-site, but it seems like the audio mix is tilted way too far toward the announcers.

* Finally--and this may be too much to ask--but some in-game stats would be helpful if there is a spotter/statistician on hand. Simple things like total jammer points ("Shocka Conduit has racked up XX of here team's points so far tonight") and especially penalty stats (if a blocker has three minors, I'd love to know it before the jam starts).

And let me end by once again complimenting the coverage. I especially appreciate the new addition of timeouts on the scoreboard at the bottom (though I wish those #@$@! ads would stop popping up to block the scorebar).

amazeballs!

First off, I just have to say a HUGE thank you to Hinckley Design & Production for their amazing contributions to this weekend. http://hinckleyproductions.com/ if only just to see the pink bunny!

Following that, I, personally, try to keep stats running throughout the bouts that I call, whether it be on the house mic or for DNN. Those are my Officially Unoffical stats, though. On occasion there is enough bodies/time for OFFICIAL stats to be ran to us at the half. Sadly, we just don't have enough peeps to guarantee this. The things I track while still blabbering away on the mic are LJ, Grand Slams, and points per jam. Usually, though, I only use those when there's a lull in the action or a TO. With the intensity of the AMAZING bouts this weekend I'm sure you can understand that wasn't my first priority, ha. As a jock douchebag I LIVE for stats, so I try to do my best.

Then again we all know math is hard...

And as far as seeing the announcers during a TO, after working 16/17 bouts, I'm not sure you WANTED to see what I looked like, ha. Although I did wear my suh-weet tuxedo shirt for the championship bout. Special occasion and all.

Thanks SO much for the love, chjones, and please continue to tune in. I'll be watching Derby in the Burbs from Chicago this weekend(stupid work!), but I'll be at the rest of the Big Five.

www.derbyintheburbs.com

Love & Derby,
Val Capone
WCR-skater
DNN-commentator

Tell us how it ends!

Since we'll be enjoying it next weekend ;)

I actually wouldn't be surprised if you had powers of time like that. I can't count the number of times you were giving us live commentary, and reading the textcast, and adding comments to the text, and handing out mints, and doing everything else you were doing... and doing it as awesomely as you do it. Even if the bouts hadn't been exciting it would've made for an awesome experience. (Hmmm... for all I know maybe those bouts WEREN'T exciting, and you just made them sound like they were).

Love you back Val...

...and, to be fair, I've seen you at enough bouts at the UIC to pick you out of a crowd. All the announcers do an excellent job, and you're right: LJ, grand slams, and PPJ are to a derby announcers what down-and-distance or ball/strike count are to their counterparts in football/baseball.

Again, I appreciate the coverage, and am happy to kick in for it. It may not be like bein' there (not even close), but it helps...

boutcasts

I'm delighted when I can get more than 2 people, including me, to cover a boutcast. The more people you get, the more things you can try. Plus it takes alot of toys to put one of these things on. Once the "Go Live" button is pressed, is usually the time the same said toys break. Its come a long way, in a short period of time, and free is still pretty darn good price to pay. I always enjoy boutcasts, regardless of quality, plus we get to interact in real time. Where else do you get that??

Dr.Johnny Capote

easterns video

Hopefully you'll be pleased with the video feed from Easterns (Sept 24-26), for which there are big plans for stats integration, particularly for the Sunday games - stay tooned...

Congrats Racer McChaseHer

Mad props to Racer McChaseHer for setting the new tournament record with 32 points in one jam. Re-read that sentence folks: 32 friggin' points in 1 jam. That was insane. Sucked to be on the opposing team for that one but still amazing.

I don't know how she makes it looks so easy. Will someone please tell me how?

Historical footnote...

mickeydismantle wrote:

Mad props to Racer McChaseHer for setting the new tournament record with 32 points in one jam. Re-read that sentence folks: 32 friggin' points in 1 jam. That was insane. Sucked to be on the opposing team for that one but still amazing.

I don't know how she makes it looks so easy. Will someone please tell me how?

That is indeed the tournament record.

The unofficial (sorry, stats have not always been religiously kept) sanctioned bout record is 35 points in a single jam, by Just Carol of Charm City Rollergirls on March 14th, 2010. Interestingly, Lady Quebeaum apparently held the previous record of 34 (which is also her number) for exactly ten jams. Other notes, that was in an extreme mismatch private bout against an unranked team that was skating with ten skaters to Charm City's 13.

Given that your bout was much more competitive a game, I'd say that the WFTDA overall record being just three points higher means that Racer really accomplished something amazing.

I'm not Rain Man or anything. After I changed the stats sheets to allow for a seventh scoring pass and not an eighth, I started taking a good look at stats for certain leagues with scary-fast jammers and slow-pack strategy. Thus far no jammer has hit the back of the pack nine times in a single jam to break the WFTDA StatsBook.

35 points

Carmen Getsome had a 35 point jam at the Wild West Showdown as well. =)

As did

Hall Balls vs NWA

STOP THAT!

You guys are making me nervous.

Question about tournament records

When you say tournament record, are you referring only to the Big 5? I witnessed Omaha's Ima Firestarter rack up a 34-point jam at the Midwest Brewhaha tournament in May: http://www.derbynewsnetwork.com/live/bouts/2010/05/midwest_brewhaha_bout...

For the purposes of DNN, yes

When DNN refers to tournament records, we're talking about tournaments that directly lead to the potential WFTDA championship ... strictly for the reason of keeping the data set manageable. If we extended it to mean "any multi-bout event," it would be bordering on impossible to be sure there wasn't something, somewhere, that we'd never had reported to us.

I missed the 32-point jam

I missed the 32-point jam because i was fulfilling other duties away from the track, and was completely oblivious thereto, so i'm sure everyone had a good chortle at my expense when i was announcing the next game and kept making reference to the 29-point jam earlier in the tournament. "Keep your eyes on your fries" is obviously the moral takeaway from this lamentable incident.

joy collision has scored more

joy collision has scored more points in a regular game and in scrimmages. And just a little note, when she got the tournament record last year, the opposing team had a full pack of skaters and the speed was pretty quick.

I have a theory about drama.

Those that are into the dramas of others need more of it in their personal lives.

That was supposed

to be a reply to Hurt. I am having problems working the internet lately.

I love to quote my sage derby wife Lady Q:

She often says "Y'all need to get a real problem." Hey, remember that time, before Hurt Reynolds' road trip, when you had to go all over the internet digging for scores from that league you were about to play? I sure remember Justice trying to invent box scores for me to report to local media in Charm City the Monday after a bout from scraps of paper...

That was 4 short years ago. We've come a long, long way in stats reporting. Respect, to Hurt, DNN and WFTDA, and the countless code monkeys and data entry folks who made his dream, Derbymatic, come true. Without the likes of Bone Crawford, Gnosis, Poobah, Moose Ondaluce, Three-Day Bender, and hundreds of texters of scores, we'd be nowhere near this kind of complaining. Seriously, thank you all!

In the time it took you

In the time it took you buttmunches to create a single character thread, the WFTDA could have sent over 10 bout stats, according to Big Chuckbowski's timetable. Way to kill the sport, you selfish animals.

Forum Software

I told you guys many, many moons ago that I would gladly admin a forum if you would install it.
Now it has come to this.

Shameful.

Shameful? Or glorious?

Shameful? Or glorious?

glorious

Yeah I don't know why you WOULDN'T want that to happen (see above). pure awesome

Why can't it be both?

Why can't it be both?

Chuck

On a more serious note;

Evie explained the WFTDA Stats process, as well as our limitations and success pretty well.

We do have some lightening fast analyst (the person who enters data and populates the game summary page), but in reality we are not able to produce a mass amount of stats in a flash.

However, you have some potentially good ideas on what the public might like to know, and how that information could be accessible on the public side. A better way to go about conveying this would be to email me killbox.sarah@gmail.com. The pretty ladies of derby put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this and can get a tad grumpy if you tell them their paint job looks bad...seeing as they invented, develop, maintain, and envision what painting is and how how it will be in the future.

I am very interested in innovation (we all are). However, WFTDA works in a way that is unlike other sports/companies/things and we are used to channels and a shared understanding of what pouring every ounce of your personhood into something is.

I/we welcome all ideas, please send them to me.

Sarah Hipel
WFTDA Games Plan manager (aka Dark Stats Overlord)
Killbox.sarah@gmail.com

How does a skater go about

How does a skater go about volunteering for DNN or WFTDA? What are the proper channels? Like everyone else, I don't sit around all day waiting for a cause, but I'm as passionate about derby, my team and my league as anyone else, and would love to contribute to the derby community.

don't know about DNN, but if

don't know about DNN, but if your league is a member (or Apprentice) of WFTDA, all you have to do is tell your head WFTDA rep (or league leadership, if you don't know who that person is) that you want to be one of your league's WFTDA reps.