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2010 East Region Playoffs Recaps

  • Carolina blocker Jojo Gadget goes in for a hit on DC Jammer Small Frye. Photo: James Calder
  • Charm City jammer Allie B Back is about to clear the pack with help from her blockers Radar Love and Thoroughbled. Photo: Darren Mayhem
  • Boston Massacre blocker Pina Collidah puts the hit on Montreal jammer Georgia W Tush. Photo: Darren Mayhem
  • Gotham jammer Paperschnitt races around the outside of Providence blocker F'Shizzy Borden. Photo: Darren Mayhem
  • Philly jammer Mo Pain looks for an outside path around Carolina blocker Ms. Anthrope the Mordant. Photo: BrendanMc
  • New Skid Ewan Wotarmy gets through with with help from Jess Bandit and Rae Volver. Photo: Apron
  • DC blocker Hooah!Girl lays a big hit on Steel City blocker Girl Rolla Warfare. Photo: James Calder
  • Gotham jammer Bonnie Thunders gets knocked around by Charm City biocker Joy Collision. Photo: Apron
  • Boston pivot Maura Buse lays a big hit on Philly jammer Teflon Donna Photo: Apron
  • Providence blockers Bleeding Rainbow, Rhode Kill and F'Shizzy Borden hold down the front. Photo: Apron
  • Just Carol and Sugar Hits battle it out on the track Photo: Apron
  • Hurricane Heather gets around Ms. Anthrope the MordantPhoto: Apron

Sunday | Saturday | Friday

Sunday

Championship: 1E Gotham 133, 2E Philly 103 -- After losing the 2009 East Regional final to Philly, Gotham was clearly on a mission for a different outcome this time. While Philly was able to put up a better fight than any of Gotham's previous 2010 opponents, Gotham was sitting on a 90 point lead with about 10 minutes to play. However, the final score ended up not reflecting Gotham's dominance for the majority of the bout, as a stunning 64-4 run for Philly in the last few jams erased two-thirds of that lead.

Like last year's meeting, this was easily the highest-tempo game of the tournament weekend. Packs often raced at near jammer speeds, making it very difficult for jammers to take more than one scoring pass.

After an scoreless opener, the second jam started with a full 40 seconds between the pack and jammer whistle as neither team was willing to give up their position in the back of the pack. When Suzy Hotrod and Mo Pain were finally released, Suzy drew first blood but couldn't finish her scoring pass before the return of Mo Pain and pulled a 2-0.

Though Philly got on the board early with a 2-0 and 2-1 jam, Gotham shut them out on the next five jams and scored on each to go up 22-4. Philly caught a break at that point when a rare Gotham jammer penalty on Hyper Lynx gave Philly's Shenita Stretcher a path to a 13-0 and a new score of 22-17 Gotham. Philly's following jammer Glorida Grindem was boxed during the following jam, but Philly absolutely abused Hyper Lynx with some very sharp-angle hits to rescue the jam at 4-3 Gotham. As the clock counted down to about 10 minutes, Philly was right on their longtime rivals at 28-21.

Philly lost a bit of an opportunity when Teflon Donna took a lead jammer status over a trapped Suzy Hotrod, but Tef back-blocked in a failed apex jump and was boxed in a jam that ended up turning out 10-3 for Suzy. From that point on, Philly was unable to get anything going offensively in the half -- even with getting lead jammer in the final couple of jams, they only ended up with a 2-2 tie and a 2-0 loss. At the break, Gotham was holding a much more sizable lead than they'd had in the previous year's matchup, 65-28.

Although Philly played Gotham almost evenly for the first five jams of the second half, they once again got in trouble following a jammer penalty. This time It was Elle Viento boxed on a fourth minor, leading to a 9-0 for Bonnie Thunders followed by 5-1 Swede Hurt, 6-0 Hyper Lynx and 9-0 Suzy Hotrod. Gotham broke triple digits there at 105-37 with about 15 minutes to play.

It got as dire as 129-39 for Philly before an improbable late-game collapse from Gotham led to three late-game powerjams for Philly and made the last 10 minutes of the game look much different than the previous half-hour. Gotham jammer Swede Hurt spent a minute in the penalty box and immediately returned to it upon being released; with Gotham also dealing with a lopsided pack situation, Philly turned those 2 minutes into a 25-0 for Teflon Donna and a 15-0 for Mo Pain. That nearly doubled Philly's score at 129-83, and Bonnie Thunders had to use her lead jammer status for a 0-0 next.

After yet another huge Philly powerjam -- this one 15-0 to Shenita Stretcher as Gotham's Papierschnitt was boxed --Philly called their second-to-last timeout with 47 seconds left and the score 129-98, hoping for a miracle. Things went their way in the opening pass as Mo Pain got lead jammer status and Bonnie Thunders got her star knocked off her helmet during her opening pass. But Mo Pain let the period time expire instead of calling the jam with a few points, meaning Philly had to pick up all 31 points in the remaining time -- a little too much to hope for. That final jam went 5-4 for Mo Pain for a final score that had seemed impossible just a few minutes ago: Gotham 133, Philly 103. -- Justice Feelgood Marshall

Bout Stats (courtesy N8 and Miranda Wrights) | Archived DNN Textcast

Third Place Bout: 4E Charm City 162, 3E Boston 128 -- This bout for third place would determine who would go on to Nationals in Chicago and who would stay home. The entire bout featured fast and furious jams, small packs, open lanes, and huge hits. Both teams began conservatively with Boston’s starting 7-0 run answered by Charm’s 8-0. Charm City’s co-captain Just Carol, who had an amazing bout, opened up the scoring after five minutes with a 17-point powerjam to give Charm a 25-7 lead. Then Krushpuppy dodged behind good blocking by Anna Wrecks’Ya to answer with 14 and narrow the gap to 5 points. Boston’s big blocker Shellby Shattered followed up by clearing the way for Sugar Hits to bring the Massacre within 1. Boston captain Claire D. Way then recaptured the lead with a 9-point powerjam.

Charm City fought their way back incrementally until the midway-point of the half. With skaters all over the place on the track and in the box, Lady Quebeaum blew up for a 17-point powerjam and a 50-43 recapture of the lead. Boston began to take advantage of the swift, shorthanded packs of Baltimore to even the score again at 50. Joy Collision and Holly Gohardly played great penalty-killing defense, however, and Holden Grudges retook the lead at 55-50. Allie B. Back’s great balance enabled her to achieve a one-legged lead-jam status and stretched the lead to 9.

The agile Krushpuppy slalomed through for 8 points to close the gap to 4 with a minute to play. Then, Charm pulled a sudden jammer-switch and Joy Collision flew ahead. Sugar Hits matched her stride for stride until she met up with a huge upper-body hit by Dolly Rocket which brought the stretcher out onto the floor. Thankfully, it left empty, and Sugar Hits walked off with her team to the locker room, down 78-73.

Boston was within just one point at 78-77 after the second half's first scoring jam, but never retook the lead. The score was 112-89 Charm with just under a quarter to go when Boston apparently got crossed up on their bench and failed to put a skater on the jammer line. An unopposed Just Carol took the lead up 10 points more.

As Lois Carmen Dominator and Anita Bangher held a great front line for the Massacre, Krushpuppy was able to get 9 back to bring the deficit down to 33 with 11 minutes to go. Five minutes later, Claire D. Way attempted to call off her jam after Boston got within 29, but no whistle was blown and, though she removed her star and skated off the track, a heads-up Just Carol kept going and scored 9 on a mostly-empty track.

With three minutes remaining, I.M. Pain played good jammer-on-jammer defense on Claire D. Way as both skaters ran up points against small packs and two minutes later the score was 162-120, Charm. The last minutes featured some confusion, fouling-out, official conferences, and a desperate one-second-remaining Boston time-out, but this story had been told. Despite there being many penalties, Charm had avoided giving up a single powerjam to Boston in the half and, with a 162-128 victory, was headed to Nationals. – Michael Frighten’d

Bout Stats (courtesy N8 and Miranda Wrights) | Archived DNN Textcast

5th Place: 5E Steel City 151, 7E Carolina 121 -- A bout that told two very different stories in two halves began with 4 major penalties in the first jam, foreshadowing the first-half story. Carolina captain Holly Wanna Crackya opened what would be a dominating half of scoring with 9 points on a powerjam and Eris Discordia kept it going with fleet feet, leading to a 16-4 early Carolina lead. Two jams later, Steel City’s Hurricane Heather found herself in the penalty box for the second time in as many jams and a great block by Ms. Anthrope the Mordant on Damage Dahl freed Holly Wanna Crackya for 15. Pittsburgh, reeling from this relentless onslaught, recovered somewhat a third of the way through the half as The Shocker absorbed big hits from JoJo Gadget and Elka Meano to get 11 back while Athena controlled Celia Fate.

The momentum shift was short-lived as The Shocker went to the box at the end of the jam setting Holly Wanna Crackya up for a 14-point powerjam. With the Carolina lead at 30, Bonecrusher and Athena kept Celia Fate under control during yet another powerjam, drawing their own jammer penalty with a signature “Steel Curtain” four-skater wall. ‘Snot Rocket Science capitalized for Steel City with 19 points despite JoJo Gadget’s heroic solo-work on defense. This closed the gap to 49-43 Carolina.

Some confusion then caused Hurricane Heather to not get to the jammer line in time, and Holly Wanna Crackya began with another powerjam. She eventually finished with 13 despite being on the low end of a high-low block with DVS on a collapsing Athena. The half closed with another 19 from Holly Wanna Crackya, who totaled 79 for the first 15 minutes, as JoJo Gadget flattened both The Crippler and Ally McKill. After 10 powerjams in the half, Carolina had a surprising 101-55 lead.

Carolina's lead peaked at 111-63 two minutes into the second half. A strange decision there may have caused momentum to shift. Pink Slip, jamming for Carolina, captured lead jammer but was outskated by ‘Snot Rocket Science. Looking to the bench for the expected call-off, she was seemingly told to keep going and Steel City came away with a 9-1 jam. Then Hurricane Heather, looking to have some clean runs around the track, found herself with her own powerjam. Ms. Anthrope the Mordant showed some textbook cross-track blockwork but Heather came away with another 16, narrowing the gap to 112-88.

Three jams later, Ally McKill drew a back block from Eris Discordia while JoJo Gadget was trapped in a Steel City goat pen, and though Ms. Anthrope the Mordant kept Hurricane Heather from capitalizing for more than 5 points, the lead was now down to 15. Then, at the 12-minute mark, Friction VixXxen and Damage Dahl formed a front line that dominated the pack for Steel City and The Shocker struck for 17 points to take the lead at 123-116, but ended the jam in the box.

Carolina looked to get the lead back on the powerjam but ‘Snot Rocket Science, in at blocker, held Holly Wanna Crackya to 5 points preserving the lead. Bonecrusher caused a major cut by Holly Wanna Crackya and Hurricane Heather scored 10 before going to the box herself, but Bonecrusher came up big again and led a defense that kept Carolina off the board. Hurricane Heather returned to play in the next jam and met with good defense by Jesse King until the Carolina blocker was floored by Dresta Kill to give the Steel City jammer enough time to stretch the lead to 143-121.

The final four minutes featured some rough play. As Dresta Kill fouled out, Holly Wanna Crackya desperately dove past Bonecrusher’s and Athena’s back wall and wound up spearing Friction VixXxen as she returned to play. Then, upon returning from the box, the Carolina captain, leaving everything out on the floor, blasted out of the box a bit ahead of ‘Snot Rocket Science for an illegal procedure, and fouled out of the game. ‘Snot Rocket Science decided not to skate out the final 90 seconds seeing as there would be no opposing jammer, much to the displeasure of the crowd. Still, Steel City had completed an amazing 88-10 run led by their blockers, and took home the victory and fifth place at 151-121. – Michael Frighten’d

Bout Stats (courtesy N8 and Miranda Wrights) | Archived DNN Textcast

7th Place Bout: 6E Montreal 271, 8E Providence 38 -- After playing the most exciting game of the tourney thus far in a two-point, last-jam nailbiter against Carolina to close Saturday's action, Montreal seemed to have no interest in creating any more drama. For the second time in the weekend, Montreal defeated an opponent by well over 200 points, but they finished one slot below where they came in.

They blanked Providence for the overwhelming majority of the first half, as a Providence jammer rotation missing the services of Craisy Dukes was having a lot of trouble with hard-hitting Montreal defense. After four jams, Montreal was up 13-2 in this one, at which point Providence jammer Jetta Von Diesel managed to pick up three box trips in the course of two jams, leading to a 14-3 and a 8-0 for Montreal -- and it was off to the races for Montreal.

In the half's 8th jam, Montreal blocker Lil' Mama was all over Providence jammer The Phury, knocking her to the ground 4 times before Phury finally majored out with a track cut and ended the jam in the box. The sequence went 8-0 to Ewan Wotarmy and then 4-0 to Georgia W. Tush, and the points just kept coming for Montreal. Providence was shut out for 11 jams in a row, during which time Montreal went on a 78-0 run to make the score 109-5 with about five minutes left in the half. At the break, Montreal was up 123-10.

Although there was slightly more offense for Providence in the second half, Montreal didn't slow down in the least. The second saw a 24-0 Iron Wench jam, a 25-0 Georgia W. Tush jam, and Montreal breaking 200 points with about 15 minutes left in the game. Montreal closed the game on a 57-0 run to win by 233.

Montreal went 2-2 to finish in 7th place; Providence goes 1-3 and ends up in 8th. -- Justice Feelgood Marshall

Bout Stats (courtesy N8 and Miranda Wrights) | Archived DNN Textcast

9th Place Bout: 10E DC 206, 9E Dutchland 118 -- When DC and Dutchland had faced off six months ago in Lancaster, Dutchland delivered a 92 point rout at 156-64. DC repaid the favor at tourney time, though, consigning Dutchland to a winless weekend with an 88-point defeat.

This one started out as a pretty low-scoring contest with Dutchland narrowly in the lead 9-5 after the first six jams, but a 12-0 powerjam win for DC's Small Frye gave DC the advantage at 17-8 about 8 minutes into the bout. Though it'd take most of the rest of the bout for DC to make their lead insurmountable, they never trailed again.

Dutchland seemed to generally be doing a better job of staying out of the penalty box than they had in their first two bouts and they were pulling the majority of the lead jammer calls in the half, but they were also hampered by questionable timing on calling the jam off. With about 13 minutes left in the half, Dutchland's Nash Villain had lead jammer but lost a 8-3 jam to Marion Barrycuda; that made the score 46-27.

On the following jam, though, Dutchland got their first big score of the bout when White Thrash rolled for 16-3 while Dutchland's defense worked over a tiring Roller Rage Rosie. That narrowed the DC advantage to just 49-43, but DC got it all back one jam later as Dutchland's Skid Ho was boxed as jammer and Sookie Slaughterhouse went 13-0.

With DC up 66-43 one jam later, Dutchland's odd choices with lead jammer status continued to keep them from fully exploiting their opportunities. DDR's Sukkubus Strixe had lead jammer and a 4-0 but let the jam keep running long enough for DC to get a full pass, forcing Strixe to go around again to get a 7-4 -- and on the following jam, Twisted Scizzors called at 1-0 although she apparently had an advantage on Free Radical. At the half, DC remained in front 83-69.

Over the first 10 minutes of the next half, DC took lead jammer status on 4 out of 6 jams and doubled their lead, pushing it to 117-82 at a Dutchland timeout with 20:44 left in the game. Even when Dutchland was able to start getting some more lead jam calls, the margins didn't work out in their favor. At about the 15 minute mark, Dutchland's Subbukus Strixe had lead jammer but picked up a fourth minor in her first scoring pass, leading to a 15-3 win for DC and a score of 142-85 with a quarter of gameplay left. Two jams later, Sookie Slaughterhouse put it away for good with a 24-4 powerjam.

DC finished the weekend 1-2, improving on their original seeding by one; Dutchland was the weekend's sole winless team and finished in last place. -- Justice Feelgood Marshall

Bout Stats (courtesy N8 and Miranda Wrights) | Archived DNN Textcast

Comments

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That was fast.

As per usual.

OMG stats!

My heart soars with derby nerd pride and excitement!

Stats

Props also to Miranda Wrights for helping sharing the workload of gathering the stats.

Much love for the stats work!

For a fan getting updates on all the action from afar, let me just give you wonderful wonderful stats people big time kudos for providing that information. It rocks.

-Wheel Smith

Additional work

Rhoda Perdition ended up joining our crew as well. She did several of the bouts on Saturday and nearly all of them on Sunday. Thanks to her as well!

DNN made it.

Congrats on meeting your contribution goal.

Nice job DNN

Congrats on making your goal!!! I'm thankful for the updates so I can keep up with my Philly Liberty Belles, I can't make it to the tourney till sunday (stupid wedding) but I am happy to keep up thru DNN great work everyone!!! Looking forward to Philly Vs. Gotham for the Championship!!! I bet this will be the best game of the year for skaters and fans alike!!! GO PHILLY!!!

It is a shame that poor

It is a shame that poor reffing was responsible for some of ridiculous point spreads and that it is allowed to continue in this sport. When crowds are booing calls and people are being sent to the box when the other team committed the penalty it is just sad. I realize that there are always going to be some poor calls as not everyone sees things the same way and that one team always has to lose, but when the reffing is blatantly and obviously bad throughout a bout something should be done. Shameful, just shameful.

Agreed

Mom Thrash wrote:

... when the reffing is blatantly and obviously bad throughout a bout something should be done. Shameful, just shameful.

Agreed.

Yikes

The Refs do an incredible job. Really they do. When the skaters skate a perfect game, the refs will start calling a perfect game.

However in that last one today, Montreal vs Carolina. I think if instant replay was available, there would have been a different outcome in this one. Heartbreaking indeed, but it is what it was. *sigh* Close games are always confusing at the end, they're just hard to call and there is a lot of stress involved.

Everyone did the best they could. Good game, we were all entertained and the emotions are obviously flowing. That's what makes derby awesome! WOO DERBY!

heatbreaking indeed

I think what is really hard to watch is when a game to seems to have been won or lost based on the ref calls. That's how I feel the Montreal/Carolina game went. BOTH teams were phenomenal and it was crazy tight.

I am still trying to sort out how Carolina got 5 points on the final jam. Where was the mystery 5th blocker, because the jammers hit the pack at the same moment. And from my vantage point (filmed somewhat above the pack) it really looked like Smack Daddy scored 3 points, making it 128 to 126 using all my fingers an toes to count that. When the game it THAT close, you can't let the stress get to you, you have to be able to handle it and ref that game to the best of your ability from start to finish.
/jumpsoffsoapbox

kudos to BOTH teams, that was a very exciting game to watch.

Lippy

Agree

I think I saw the same thing. Smack made it by 2 blockers legally, and on the 3rd one she got the penalty. So 2 points she should have recieved. And 4 points for Carolina, because that mystery 5th point came from nowhere. Still put Montreal at the win by 1 point.

Such a good game. Refs did a great job, but the stress and confusion at the end of 2 full days of bouts probably played a role in this ending.

I think the refs got it right

HerbieHind wrote:

I think I saw the same thing. Smack made it by 2 blockers legally, and on the 3rd one she got the penalty. So 2 points she should have recieved. And 4 points for Carolina, because that mystery 5th point came from nowhere. Still put Montreal at the win by 1 point.

After watching the replay several times, I'm not sure I agree with you about Smack making a legal pass on 2 blockers. As she was making the pass her left skate appeared to be over the inside line. Shortly after that she was sent to the penalty box. So zero points for her appears to be the correct call.

I agree with Onceler...she

I agree with Onceler...she was given a track cut major in turn three, before she passed anyone legally. You can see the ref start signaling it in turn four. So not only did she not earn points, she is considered off the track for scoring purposes as soon as the ref starts signaling her off. So Holly earned her four for passing the 4 blockers, and the ghost point for Smack. So five for Holly looks correct to me as well.

Da rules

This is actually something that really bugs me, and it's really bugged me even more this weekend for some reason. It doesn't make any sense to me that if two jammers are on the same scoring pass, and one receives a major penalty (or 4th minor), then the other jammer automatically gets a jammer lap point. A jammer lap point means that the jammer has gained an entire lap on the other jammer (obviously not a physical lap but a pack lap). To me there is no way I can twist and look at it as being a proper lap gained. I think this is especially bothersome because the ghost points are scored when the jammer passes the first blocker... so I feel that anyone going to the box after she's already entered the pack can not be counted as a ghost point.

Getting it right is hard.

Watching this from home (stupid busted water main), I was SO CERTAIN the refs had blown it, and that this should've been a 4-1 jam (tie game) or even 4-2 (Montreal victory). I had to rewatch the archived clip a whooole bunch of times to finally decide that, sure enough, Smack Daddy had maybe two wheels over the line as she took the pack on the inside, so there's no way she scored any points (and there's the major while she's at it).

The camera angle we have, and the resolution of the video, makes it *just barely possible* to pick this out. If we were streaming 320x240 like we did until recently, or if the camera angle were a little off, or if a different camera had been selected, it probably wouldn't be discernible on the archived video at all. Anyone who thinks instant replay is the answer definitely hasn't thought the whole problem through :)

Even then, I was SURE awarding five points to Carolina was an error, until someone pointed out to me that Smack earning a box trip while Holly was still in the pack made her an available ghost point. Bottom line: criticizing is easy. Getting it right is hard. Jumping to criticize referees based on a fleeting vision is fraught with peril!

Going with my gut

I completely understand your point on this one issue.
My gut feeling to the entire weekend is that the reffing was not up to a standard that I feel it should be. I did not jump to criticize as I really wanted to start complaining during Fridays games. So many missed calls added to so many bad calls just starts to grind on me after a few games and at some point, it has to come to a head. I watched all of NC region playoffs and never once felt like I was seeing bad reffing.
You guys can go on talking about one play in one game. I have issues with the entire weekend, thus far.

Reffing

Pitchit wrote:

I completely understand your point on this one issue.
My gut feeling to the entire weekend is that the reffing was not up to a standard that I feel it should be. I did not jump to criticize as I really wanted to start complaining during Fridays games. So many missed calls added to so many bad calls just starts to grind on me after a few games and at some point, it has to come to a head. I watched all of NC region playoffs and never once felt like I was seeing bad reffing.
You guys can go on talking about one play in one game. I have issues with the entire weekend, thus far.

Agreed.

Explanations

Was any of this explained to the fans?

This is where derby falls short in my opinion. We often don't spend the time to explain outcome altering calls (or any calls really) to the fans and they leave with a bad taste in their mouth about the refs and ultimately the game itself. I can tell you that the interwebs were abuzz with this last night, with the overwhelming majority believing that the refs really screwed that one up. Had there been the explanation above it would have averted all that.
I'm not saying every little call should be broken down, but hell there was like a 6 minute time out and the webcast announcers didn't have a clue what was going on and I assume the house announcers didn't either.

Did Carolina request an official review before the Official Time-out? There's some confusion around that as well.

Thanks for all the clarifications here, at least we can calm down a little haha.
And thanks DNN for airing this so we could all get our blood pressure up!

Lippy

At the Hometown Showdown (and

At the Hometown Showdown (and apparently at other events, I gathered from the DNN announcers), Rose City had an announcer on the floor whose sole job it was to clarify the officiating. He'd listen in on ref pow-wows and tell the fans what was going on, or just comment during the game about things. It was really awesome, and really helpful to people who either don't know derby well, or couldn't see what happened that led to a call, or were watching at home, like I was.

explaining to the crowd.

Maybe it is time to start giving the refs a mic, although I don't think they want it.

I am a big fan of the way Rose City handles the situation. They got it down.

During tournaments the announcers actually have a ref. The announcers are not allowed to investigate themselves, so there is an NSO that sits next to the announcers and investigates on behalf of the announcers. Then the NSO relays the info to the house announcers, and then the house announcer relays the info to the crowd. Then the DNN announcers start calling out to the house announcers to figure it out. I feel like this is like playing the telephone game. The info gets edited by the time the crowd hears it.

Again I think Rose city has it down when explaining the "odd call," and I hope we can adopt something more along their lines. I often run down and try to get info from the refs during our home games, but I'm not very good at it. I try not to interfere, and I rarely get all the info.

I didn't see the game in question, so I can't give any opinions. However, we had an "odd call" in Chicago last night that didn't get explained well to the crowd, and I'm kicking myself for not doing a better job. Things get missed. We can do better.

Mumble
Windy Blue Suit

Waaaay back in the day

In our first season, when I was head ref at Charm City before we had a electronic scoreboard, I wore a wireless mic connected to the house PA and I'd announce the score of each jam and new total score right before the next jam started. Technology has obviated the need for relaying score like that, but it seems like it would be an ideal solution for situations like official reviews, ejections, etc, similar to the way that NFL refs announce the nature of penalties. Everybody hears the same information directly from the final authority at the same time.

Of course, you would want some very articulate head refs, or it might end up backfiring...

Jet City's solution

A few weeks back when Tucson came up to play Jet City the head ref (Hanging Chad?) was miked. For the online boutcast his voice was on the right channel, the announcers were left. As we watched we usually kept the balance all the way to the announcers' side, as both voices at once were distracting. Whenever there was a huddle we'd swing it back to the ref's channel to hear what was going on. Occasionally we'd listen to a jam with just the ref's mike to get a feel for what his job was like.

Not a perfect solution, but it did give us a greater understanding of the game. I also remember Rat City bouts back a few years ago when the head ref would address the crowd directly after OTO's (don't remember if he was miked or if he went over to the announcer's table) much like NFL refs do.

My chief complaint about had always been poor communication. Bout after bout I was certain I had seen gross injustices perpetrated against whatever team I was rooting for, only to have a ref explain to me at the afterparty why they had ruled the way that they did, or watch an archived boutcast and seen what I had missed. There are few things as frustrating as going to an athletic competition of any kind and leave not knowing why it ended the way that it did.

And Justice, with regards to inarticulate refs, I'd nominate you to be hired and Chief Elocution Officer for all WFTDA refs. Anyone who routinely inserts phrases like "Sisyphean task" into his play by play announcing has my vote.

Justice, you nail this with the right idea

That is one thought I've never had - shame on me, as I'm a big NFL fan. I totally love that idea.

It has to be a tough night before I'll ever criticize our reffing anywhere, anytime. IF you follow sports, then you understand the difficulty of reffing in ours. If you don't follow sports at all, you really can't comment. In college basketball, the same refs have been screwing up calls - with good vantage points - every season. NFL, the same thing. And they don't have to be in constant motion to make every call. Our rule set is the hardest of any sport to ref that I've encountered. Hard for fans/announcers to know what happened, hard to explain, and the angle you see the infraction at differs from the ref's angle. Often, we don't see the same thing based on differences in position. Hand signals are great, but depending on where you're looking, you miss so many of them. NSOs helping announcers at the tables have been great during tournaments.

Banked track allocates one person with a white board that's split with a line in the middle, so each team has a side. After each jam, they hold it up to the announcers, it shows the player number and uses an acronym (which we have a key for at the table) for the call. Not rocket science, but the best communication device I've encountered so far. Though, overall, I think Justice really has this right by using a headset.

I was happy to see a few people bring up the perception by our fans in this thread. That "F"-word is one we don't use enough. We need to begin developing rules with them in mind. We have a great sport that is, in essence, fairly easy to understand, but we make it mirky with a rule set that is too complex to relay to them consistently.

Banked Track

Banked Track also doesn't penalize skaters for their penalty until the following Jam, and I think (at least the few LADD games I've watched online) that there are quite a bit less penalties called in Banked track than in Flat track. Of course Banked tracks severity is a bit harsher too!

ece too

we started that at ECE 08 after stealing the idea from easterns 07.

I'll take the blame for some

I'll take the blame for some of this. It was my responsibility to make sure that the announcers were properly provided with equipment and adding in an extra mic for the refs totally slipped my mind.

It would have taken zero effort to have an additional mic on standby for explanations and I just zoned on that. Of all the million little bearings that we were trying to balance to keep the wheels falling off the jalopy, this one just never even crossed anyone's mind. Oopsy! Lesson learned.

On the other hand, I had friends there who had never seen derby before, and the Carolina/Montreal game, even with the ridiculous delay and the bad communications, convinced them that they needed to come back and see more. Thank you, Carolina and Montreal!

don't flog yourself too long or too hard, D-Train

You all produced an amazing, enjoyable, COMFORTABLE event. A big bonus was that the excellent, personality-full, on-site announcers could actually be heard & understood, which is much MUCH more than I've come to expect from most derby venues' sound.

Nice job!

The Cycrone!
Philly Roller Girls

What I heard

What I heard from the broadcast was the Montreal jammer was sent to the box, that would have put her out of play and made her an automatic 5th point and cut off any points from the point of the being sent to the box. Just saying what I heard.

Well, it's not instant, but

Well, it's not instant, but DNN is here for you. Here is the final jam for your debating pleasure.

Video

As I watched this live last evening, I swore Holly got 4, Smack got 2, but you can see even on tiny screen Smack's left skate clearly over the line, and she passed 0 blockers legally. If Smack had gone to the box when she was called on Turn 3/4, would Holly have gotten her point as she passed the first blocker or would she have to pass the pack again? If she got 4, then the score would be 126-125 CRG. The big question is whether Smack did or did not pass blockers legally.

annnnnnnnnnd....

if you watch the jam prior to this one...looks like Crackya wasn't awarded points...though she should have gotten at least the one for the blocker in the back and the ghost points for the boxed skaters. just sayin'

Replaying the vid multiple

Replaying the vid multiple times, at least between 1:25 to 1:35 Smack Daddy was technically still out of play by straddling all around the curve until she went all in slowing down while a Carolina blocker started pushing her out, and then Smack slid behind the pack. From what I understand of the rules, it is not cutting if she is still straddling, goes all in, and then returns behind the pack. One or two wheels out of bounds sure, but still straddling. That major should not have been called.

Now, as for when she started straddling hard to tell with Rae Volver blocking the view from that camera angle for a bit. This bit could make the difference whether she legally passed the first Carolina blocker or not. Other two she was out of play for. If yes, 1 for that blocker and 1 from the blocker in the penalty box equal 2 points. She had an opportunity to score more, if not all even if the first 2 point did not happen, after re-entering behind the pack if she did not get called for a Major even before Crack-Ya called it off.

From the in person angle I had from the bench, I was sure she passed the first blocker legally and got those 2 points before she started straddling. I much would like to see footage from other camera angles.

Crack-Ya got 4 points and she was already out of the pack before the Ref started making the gesture to call Smack Daddy a Major. So even if the Major was valid, she would not have gotten that 5th point.

As for whether that Jam should have happened or not, the previous jam ended at 0:39, and the official timeout was called at 0:09 (according to the score board anyway). The reason given for the timeout was because no Skids or even Carolina had skaters on the track for another jam, as most thought it was over especially as neither team had any timeouts left. Sure there was more than 30 seconds left and enough time to get ready for another Jam, but can the Refs call an official timeout because of lack of skaters for another jam cause another jam to happen?

Also, an official review with viewing of the footage was scheduled by the officials for the following morning after Montreal contested it, and then at the appointed time say no official review would happen, wasting time. Suggestion to WFTDA tournament rules, allow official video review when video of the bout is available, and ban officials changing their minds after already scheduling an official review.

In the end, no matter what, yay derby and hugs all around!

straddling and the rules.

NamelessWhorror wrote:

From what I understand of the rules, it is not cutting if she is still straddling, goes all in, and then returns behind the pack. One or two wheels out of bounds sure, but still straddling. That major should not have been called.

Now, as for when she started straddling hard to tell with Rae Volver blocking the view from that camera angle for a bit. This bit could make the difference whether she legally passed the first Carolina blocker or not. Other two she was out of play for. If yes, 1 for that blocker and 1 from the blocker in the penalty box equal 2 points. She had an opportunity to score more, if not all even if the first 2 point did not happen, after re-entering behind the pack if she did not get called for a Major even before Crack-Ya called it off.
In the end, no matter what, yay derby and hugs all around!

I have not had a chance to watch the replay, but based on what is said here it sounds like this would be the applicable rule:

Track Cutting Majors:
6.11.16 An upright skater straddling the track boundary who passes multiple in-play skaters, and then ceases her out of bounds contact with the floor, which results in her having bettered her position.

Based on that, it sounds to me like the penalty should be called as soon as she was in and not straddling in front of the two blockers. There would only be an opportunity to return to the back of the pack if she stayed partially or fully out of bounds.

Someone please explain if my understanding is incorrect.

correct

Your understanding is correct.

Exactly!

jdnash wrote:

Track Cutting Majors:
6.11.16 An upright skater straddling the track boundary who passes multiple in-play skaters, and then ceases her out of bounds contact with the floor, which results in her having bettered her position.

Based on that, it sounds to me like the penalty should be called as soon as she was in and not straddling in front of the two blockers. There would only be an opportunity to return to the back of the pack if she stayed partially or fully out of bounds.

Someone please explain if my understanding is incorrect.

Exactly. Unless another camera angle shows otherwise, Smack Daddy did not go in from straddling. She straddled around the turn, went all out by herself and getting pushed by a Carolina blocker, slowed, and then slid behind the pack.

You're not crazy

That's exactly what I see as well.

But I will go on to say that I do not envy our refs at all. I think any skater who has attempted to do a little refereeing will agree. That is one really hard job! When I find myself getting all heated about what I perceive to be a bad call I try to remind myself that there are probably things that my team did that we got away with and that it is hopefully all evening out. Bad calls happen even at the highest level of sports. Anyone remember Jay Cutler's infamous "incomplete pass" lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRyN7naQcM0&feature=related

Anyway, the Chargers killed the Broncos later on. Remember, there's always Karma people;)

hit em where it hurts

Mom Thrash wrote:

It is a shame that poor reffing was responsible for some of ridiculous point spreads and that it is allowed to continue in this sport. When crowds are booing calls and people are being sent to the box when the other team committed the penalty it is just sad. I realize that there are always going to be some poor calls as not everyone sees things the same way and that one team always has to lose, but when the reffing is blatantly and obviously bad throughout a bout something should be done. Shameful, just shameful.

dock their pay, or demote them!

Really?

The girls work HARD. Practice three, four, sometimes five nights a week. They do community service projects, they run their leagues. Derby pretty much BECOMES their life. All for free as well. I don't think it is too much to ask that calls be fair, free or not. That's all.

bad calls or biased calls?

Does anyone who is not a ref really know how much time refs put into derby? how much time they spend on the rules: reading, discussing, taking practice tests, then explaining and teaching the skaters the rules. i've seen many leagues where refs attend more practices than skaters. i know of refs watching footage and nerding out discussing and disecting each play and call. i know of many community service events attended by leagues where the refs and officials outnumber the skaters. derby BECOMES their life too, and getting it right becomes what they all strive for. so, is it bad calls, or bias we're talking about? and refs do it all for free too.

.

.

I have a pretty good idea.....

zombie wrote:

Does anyone who is not a ref really know how much time refs put into derby? how much time they spend on the rules: reading, discussing, taking practice tests, then explaining and teaching the skaters the rules. i've seen many leagues where refs attend more practices than skaters. i know of refs watching footage and nerding out discussing and disecting each play and call. i know of many community service events attended by leagues where the refs and officials outnumber the skaters. derby BECOMES their life too, and getting it right becomes what they all strive for. so, is it bad calls, or bias we're talking about? and refs do it all for free too.

That was in reply to you pointing out that the refs were not paid. We can go back and forth like that for days. Not gonna.

Bad calls or biased calls? Are you suggesting one is better than the other?

When jammers are sitting in the box for half of the jams in a bout there is a problem. One of three. Either the skaters don't know the rules, the refs don't know the rules or there is bias. I'm betting against the first one.

bad calls can be corrected?

I think, inherently, bad calls would be better than biased calls, because bad calls and the habits that cause bad calls to be made can be worked on, improved and corrected?

Agreed

WheelSmith wrote:

I think, inherently, bad calls would be better than biased calls, because bad calls and the habits that cause bad calls to be made can be worked on, improved and corrected?

Agreed. Biased calls would denote malintent. Bad calls would not.

No, there's another option:

Players know the rules, refs know the rules, there's no bias, but players still take penalties anyway.

It happens; in derby, from what I've seen, it happens a lot.

Not what I meant at all

zombie wrote:
Mom Thrash wrote:

It is a shame that poor reffing was responsible for some of ridiculous point spreads and that it is allowed to continue in this sport. When crowds are booing calls and people are being sent to the box when the other team committed the penalty it is just sad. I realize that there are always going to be some poor calls as not everyone sees things the same way and that one team always has to lose, but when the reffing is blatantly and obviously bad throughout a bout something should be done. Shameful, just shameful.

dock their pay, or demote them!

And please, don't think I am saying ALL refs are bad ALL of the time. What I said specifically is that "when the reffing is blatantly and obviously bad throughout a bout something should be done". Is it really fair to anyone for that to happen?

personally

the refs this tourney did a great job. Yes it was a huge upset for Montreal but it was a hard fight the entire time and the refs did their best to the very end even after an official review. Major Kudos to the entire ref squad for the entire weekend because they do what they know which is ref great derby.

solutions?

What are the solutions? All I hear are complaints. No ideas, no suggestions, no recipes. How do we get the best refs to tourneys and how do we get refs to be the best refs? Cloning?

Do other sports ever yank a ref making bad calls? And who decides that? Fans? Parents? Will a ref who is on the verge of becoming the next good tourney ref ever come back after facing such humiliation? How does a ref ever get to be tournament ready unless they ref a tournament?

What about a refs' travel fund? Get the best refs to all big-5 events as well as someone go take their shifts at work since its basically like taking 5 5-day weekends in a row--give or take.

The utep two step ...

Side stepping the derby specific content ... and pulling a Tim Hardaway right into the more general questions ...

Other sports that I've seen won't yank a ref in the middle of an event. But there will be consequences for bad calls. The NFL can fine refs, and suspend them. I forget what MLB did this season but a perfect game was blown by a bad call. The NBA is still taking it on the chin from fan perspective after bias was revealed to be pretty rampant.

I think by the very nature of refs being more anonymous than the players of a sport, that they find it easier to come back after humiliation. Maybe not crime like that one NBA ref, but definitely the egg on the face bad call humiliation. Heck, you want to check for goofs ... in this weekend's Dallas/Houston game, one ref was tongue tied when making a call on the mic. There's video of that around NFL.com and Yahoo's sports coverage did a blog on it. That guy'll be reffing next week, with millions of fans not even remembering.

So in the context of other sports ... refs mess up. The governing body of the sport handles the consequences of ref behavior. The NFL, I've seen, is very very touchy about the subject due to many fans continually wanting to hang refs out to dry over consequences of calls.

refs

we seem to be letting the inmates run the asylum.

Simplify derby penalties/rules

The WFTDA needs to find a way to make the sport less confusing and therefore easier to officiate consistently and easier for fans to follow.

I've been watching modern-era roller derby since 2004 (got hooked watching banked track TXRD while in Austin for SXSW), and have watched a number of teams in various cities. I've watched a ton of bouts, and even with a pretty good grasp of the sport and WFTDA rules, many jams end up confusing. Not the way to ensure consistent, fair officiating. And not a good way to attract new fans.

I won't pretend to be an expert, and I know a lot of time and thought has gone into making WFTDA rules thorough, but penalties -- the way they're called and served -- need to be cleaned up.

I've sat in the audience many times and watched too much head-scratching by refs and officials. And then there's new audience members trying to make sense of it all.

This is just my honest opinion. I love derby and respect all the effort that goes into making it happen by players and both skating and non-skating officials.

hmmmm

Wouldn't simplifying the rules basically be like taking a step backwards, creating more room for interpretation, more room for inconsistency?

Here's an example to explain my thought better:
Passing the star

It's a pretty rare thing in your average derby bout. It happens, but not that often. The rules covering it take up a page and a half of the rules PDF from WFTDA. This isn't meant to be overly complex. It's meant to cover all the weird things that can happen during a star pass. So that the rules are specific when something comes up. If one were to simplify, and perhaps edit down that page and a half, wouldn't the rules for star passes get less consistent?

I don't know. It's late. Maybe I'm crazy.

I've commented on this before...

And I'm glad now someone else said it first. Bruiser has it exactly right. And with all due respect to WheelSmith, we're not talking about a rarely-seen maneuver like Passing the Star. In any given bout there are usually 3-4 delays for ref huddles, penalty clarifications, and sorting out players in the box. That's on top of all the on-the-spot officiating that occurs during a typical jam, which is usually correct but sometimes very difficult for fans to follow.

That said, the refs in the Montreal-Carolina bout did get the final call correct; the jammer's skate is clearly over the inside line of the curve when she makes a pass. But even this penaty is sometimes a minor, sometimes a major (I don't know if the jammer was sent off for a major penalty or because this would have been her fourth minor--the latter is unlikely, but not impossible given the situation); fans have no idea what the exact situation is, so of course it looks like a cheap call. I'd also agree with N8's comment regarding the "free" (though legal) jammer point in this situation; it seems unfair, but it was at best an incidental issue.

This is not at all a criticism of the officials--all the evidence shows they call the game extremely well and according to the rules. The problem IMO is that the required enforcement of those rules appears obscure and arbitrary. This may be a problem caused by lack of communication with the fans or it may be built into the nature of the rules themselves--others are better qualified to decide.

Rules can never be "clear enough"

Disclaimer: I'm not a ref, have never been a ref, and doubt I have the temperament (to say nothing of the skating ability) to be a ref. As an announcer, it's part of my job to be deferential to the ref calls, and to voice no opinions on the interpretation of the rules, and in general I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm extremely grateful to the refs who go out of their way to make it clear what penalties are being called or why Player X scored 4 points instead of 5, and so forth.

My observations of the established pro sports in the nation leads me to believe that most of them continue to have rules discussions and debates among the officials during the course of any random game. (And that's not even considering the rules changes between seasons!) Maybe roller derby is more like hockey or basketball, in which you expect more or less continuous action, but on the other hand the breaking up of the period into jams is somewhat similar to football's plays or baseball's at-bats. And goodness knows there are plenty of ref huddles during football and umpire discussions during baseball. So I don't think it's particularly unexpected or egregious to have a few delays for clarification or discussion during the course of a bout.

People being people, there will always be some weird unforeseen situation arising, and I don't think it's possible for the rules to be "clear enough" to handle all of those in advance.

Uhh...

Ump huddles in baseball are very rare.

Ref huddles in football are a minute max and most of the time are less than 20 seconds.

Ref huddles in roller derby can last 10 minutes and most of the time NOTHING changes from what was called. Also, in baseball and football, fans almost always know what the refs are talking about and, at least in football, it's always clearly explained afterward. In roller derby, fans have no idea what's going on and they're not clued in any better once the final call is made.

wellllll, even in pee wee football, their officials get paid

thebigchuckbowski wrote:

Ump huddles in baseball are very rare.

Ref huddles in football are a minute max and most of the time are less than 20 seconds.

Ref huddles in roller derby can last 10 minutes and most of the time NOTHING changes from what was called. Also, in baseball and football, fans almost always know what the refs are talking about and, at least in football, it's always clearly explained afterward. In roller derby, fans have no idea what's going on and they're not clued in any better once the final call is made.

When we first started playing, we tried to hire hockey / football refs to come do our games, and they laughed at us. They have professional organizations and obligations and are certified to do what they do - and they are paid accordingly. They specialize because they have to know the rules for their sport super well. And we approached amateur league hockey / football officials. I can only imagine what professional level officials must go through - and I hope they get paid a lot, because Trish was telling me that a baseball ump in Philly once had his house burned down for what fans thought was a game-changing call.

So, um, derby is 7 years old if you count from when we first started playing interleague, and we're a few years into our Officials Certification through WFTDA, and the refs are getting better and better organized, and the rules are getting more and more thorough. I have offered an angry neighbor wave to more than a few calls this weekend, but overall, i think the progress the officials are making is fast and impressive. At least as fast as the sport is developing. And we still aren't paying them yet. Which is my long-winded way of saying what Zombie said faaar more succinctly.

I'm not complaining about

I'm not complaining about calls. Bad calls happen in all levels of sports and, in reality, should be expected more often from volunteers.

But, that doesn't mean that they should have 10 minute long discussions and talk with the coaches before they make decisions. The ref either saw something or they didn't. They should make the call and stand by it. If another ref saw something different, then a legit discussion can take place (but it still shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes), if no one else saw something different then go with the call and be done with it. Every second after the call is made, the more likely that your memory of it will be different, so even if the call is overturned (which VERY rarely happens), there's no guarantee that it's the right call.

Just like last night, many people that I trust their opinions, have come on here and said that the call that was made last night was the right one. Great! That's awesome. Why did they need 5 minutes and discussions with both benches if the call made on the floor was right? Make the call and leave the floor. Let the winning team celebrate.

I want to see someone defend 10 minute ref huddles and say they help the sport or even try to say that it's not a big enough issue to help or hurt the sport. It sucks and hurts the sport. If that's a widely held view (and I believe it is), there's no reason for it to continue.

Communicate, Communicate, Communicate

The problem is lack of communication. Yes, the refs got the call right, the video clearly supports them, now the refs need to take it to the next step, and communicate what happened.

Some refs do this now, but the practice needs to be expanded. And that is refs rolling over to the announcer table or picking up a microphone and explaining to the audience what an official timeout was for and why play was stopped. This is simple. If the official timeout was to resolve penalty issues, just say that. If the timeout was for an official review, afterwords, explain who called for an official review, what they were asking a review of and what was the result of the review. This is just a few seconds and after minutes of a timeout this is not going to add any significant time to what's been already taken and would eliminate the "what the hell is going on?" question.

Like I said some refs are already is doing this. WFTDA in the last couple of years has worked mightily to improve ref quality and they have made great strides in that area, as reffing quality has improved and broadened. Now WFTDA, add official timeout explanations to the ref's repertoire.

Didn't watch the Montreal vs

Didn't watch the Montreal vs Carolina game so I can't really comment.

Just thought it interesting that after getting home from the WCR vs Texas afterparty I was suprised to see the Montreal vs Carolina score is not showing on the DNN scores page.

Not sure what that really means - just something I noticed.

doh

What it means is that tournament weekends are long and taxing, and there's a lot of data updates to enter, and sometimes we miss one. Thanks for pointing it out so we could fix it :)

Hurricane Heather's 35 point jam

That is an awesome power

That is an awesome power jam!...but, i only count 6 scoring passes...am i missing something?

I also counted six...

...but I guess it's possible that maybe one of the passes was accidentally cut out in the editing?

since it was shot live...

Sweet N. Lowdown wrote:

...but I guess it's possible that maybe one of the passes was accidentally cut out in the editing?

that is what i thought, but if you watch the seconds, i don't think an additional pass during the cutaways was possible. Don't get me wrong this is an incredible jam, but i think it is only (only doesn't seem like the right word) 30 point jam (which would still tie last years record breaker by joy collision at eaterns last year)...

This has been a source of some controversy here

The official scoresheet says 35. I'll try to get this cleared up for good before we get out of here for the weekend.

The scoreboard

The scoreboard starts at 35 for SC at the beginning of the jam and ends with 75 indicating a 30 point jam. This also matches up with the 6 scoring passes in the clip. At the end of the clip during the timeout, well after the jam has ended, the score just mysteriously clicks up to 80 with no explanation from the announcers or anything. On the track the teams are both in timeout mode. It doesn't look like people are arguing calls or points or anything. Maybe it really was a 30 pointer after all?

Either way it was very impressive.

40-point jam?

75 - 35 points = a 40 point jam. I presume you meant it starts with 45 or ends with 65, right?

Yup

Starts with 45. Typos!

any update on this?

I was excited to see this jam posted since I didn't watch the bout.

But... it's clearly a 30 point jam. Hear are the passes (+/- 1 second):

1:39
1:24
1:09
0:47
0:34
0:20
0:05

Initial pass + 6 scoring passes. I would defy anyone to argue that there was another pass in between one of these when the camera had panned away.

To echo above criticism (constructive I hope, I know reffing is difficult and there is a lot going on) but I can't name another sport that gets points wrong so often. It does not seem to affect the outcome of the game in most circumstances, though the uncertainty is always there.

Did the pack slow her at the .47 to 1.09 mark?

Having not re-watched the video - was she slowed by the pack between the 0.47 and 1.09 passes? Each of the other passes is 13-15 seconds, but that one is 22 - hypothetically it could in fact be two EXTREMELY quick passes, unless she was blocked/slowed in some way that didn't occur on any other pass.

It appears that...

between those 2 passes she was hit to the inside and had to re-enter the pack.
Justice- any word on what the outcome will be? Obviously the score will not change, but does the record stay with Racer and her 32 point jam? Let us know what you hear....

Doesn't really matter any more...

sasse.mcnasty wrote:

between those 2 passes she was hit to the inside and had to re-enter the pack.
Justice- any word on what the outcome will be? Obviously the score will not change, but does the record stay with Racer and her 32 point jam? Let us know what you hear....

The tournament single jam record is now 39 points (Rat City's Primp Daddy). Which also takes the unofficial sanctioned bout single jam record away from Charm City's Just Carol (who got 35 points in a jam against River City back in March).

Oh yeah, I'm still kinda pissed that my StatsBook got broken. Damn you, Primp Daddy! Do you want your Stats Geek/Head NSO to have to buy legal paper to print out the sheets? I'm starting to think this jam was planned by the creator of Rinxter.

*~[:-{P>

slower pass

I thought about noting that next to that pass but yes she was hit out of bands and re-entered behind the pack. It was a slower pass. And the consistency of the the other lap times would suggest there was not another lap. She was simply awarded an extra 5 points at the end for no reason. Which in a way kinda sucks because it was an awesome jam, 30 points is nothing to sneeze at, but not record setting.

#1

Go Philly!
Pa rep'n
show them the power of the cheesesteak!!

Kudos to Gotham, Philly, and the telecast crew!

It was a treat to watch the great jam play in the Gotham-Philly final; I was particularly impressed with the skating of Bonnie Thunders, who seemed to waltz right past every Philly block. However, IMO Gotham, won the game because of excellent pack play; their blockers just frustrated the Philly jammers (at least until the last 10 minutes), and it seemed as though Philly was not prepared for the Gotham muscle.

Let me also say the on-line coverage was spectacular. The on-screen stats were a nice treat, but for my money the camera work was the best I've seen; great angles, right choices on action shots and camera switches--this was probably the easiest time I've had following the action on-line. Much appreciated.

One question for skaters...

Not to belabor the call at the end of the Montreal-Carolina game, but I've been wondering...can a jammer tell just by "feel" (i.e. without looking) if her skate is riding on the line? I suspect it would be very difficult, and if so, would something like a rougher line surface (a rumblestrip?) be of any help in avoiding a potential cutting-the-track penalty?

Track Boundary

WFTDA Rules
2.1.3
The track boundaries must be marked by a raised boundary at least one quarter inch
(0.25) and no more than two (2) inches in height, in such a way that is highly visible to
skaters and officials and does not present a safety hazard to skaters. The track
boundary line width must be at least one (1) inch and no greater than three (3) inches.
The track boundary must be consistent in height and width throughout the entire
boundary.

You can definitely feel the track boundary when you roll over it and you can be pretty sure you're out-of-bounds when you do. Skaters do take risks when the game is on the line, so to speak.

As a player

I don't have stats in front of me or anything, but I'd be willing to bet a whole lotta money that most teams practice on a taped-out track that has no skate-feedback as to whether you are in bounds or not.

Good skaters have a very well developed sense of what's out of bounds from their relative location to the other skaters on the track; I really don't think that the raised boundary requirement changes the amount of track-cut or OOB blocking penalties that are called.

More like Justice Rubberband Marshall

After the HCH vs San Diego bout, I'm guessing Justice has had more skate-feedback with the rope than he will ever need again. I'm still so glad, and a bit surprised, that you didn't end up seriously injured on that freak accident.

I've been skating in an oval for five years.

Same size, same direction.

In one of our practice venues, the painted track has worn away in one area. I'm not too cool or proud to admit that without the visual marker in that spot, I've been known to roll egregiously out of bounds in that spot if I'm not paying attention.

The raised boundary and muscle memory helps for sure, but honestly, some of us need to see it to do it right.

DNN got me drunk

lady quebeaum wrote:

... I've been known to roll egregiously out of bounds...

DRINK!

That is SO not a drinking game rule

Current rules.

But the Drinking Game Rules Committee will certainly take it under advisement for version 5.0.

Informal

Hurt Reynolds wrote:

Current rules.

But the Drinking Game Rules Committee will certainly take it under advisement for version 5.0.

I believe it to be an informal rule added by the LADD.

You can feel the rope

That's exactly what the rope is for. You can definitely feel it. It's more a matter of control under high speeds. It doesn't matter if you can feel the second (actually more like millisecond before it's a cut) that you first hit the rope if you can't stop your skates.

I know in our practice space in San Diego we have a rope on the boundaries that is up all the time so that hopefully we are able to learn to work with the feeling of a cut, or I guess more like the feeling right before it. Always working on improvement in that department.

Refs should totally communicate after huddles

I was at a bout recently and with less than a minute left on the clock in a hundred point blowout there was a six or seven minute huddle, the fourth of the game. Many folks in the crowd just up and left - there's gotta be a better way!

I would be 100% behind a ref taking the mic for a moment to clarify the play NFL-style. Not all the time, just after the really messy stuff.

it has happened!

as a boutcaster i am always being asked by viewers what the refs discussed. i try not to ASSuME things because, well... misinformation isn't fun... at eastern regionals last year, i have a very clear memory of the head ref at the time skating over to the DNN table specifically to inform us of what was going on. so thank you Mr. Rawk for being awesome and letting the fans know what all the huddling was about.

YES!!!! XENA HAS IT!!!

Xena Paradox wrote:

as a boutcaster i am always being asked by viewers what the refs discussed. i try not to ASSuME things because, well... misinformation isn't fun... at eastern regionals last year, i have a very clear memory of the head ref at the time skating over to the DNN table specifically to inform us of what was going on. so thank you Mr. Rawk for being awesome and letting the fans know what all the huddling was about.

Last year, at eastern regionals, the referee's would all come over to the DNN/ANNouncer area & give us the low down. At this regiona, the "live call' announcers were on the opposite side of the track than the DNN group. The "ref in the box" would often run out tot he track to get the lowdown for the live announcers but the information would not get to the DNN side. I think tourney set up should always thave the 2 groups together, set up on the 3-4 turn which would allow better communication throughout & allow us to provide the home viewers with the most up to date info..

like the mic

seriously, just a quick address to the crowd and players would really help, I love when I take in a bout where the refs yell out the infraction as it is happening, much appreciated, and anything related to score should always be announced publicly at some point. I refuse to ever put down or talk badly about a ref crew (publicly, anyway... heh heh... ok, I occasionally groan when an official timeout takes 5 minutes in a blowout, I'll be honest) because they work for free and for the love of derby. That being said, this sport is still essentially in its infancy and this type of thing will only get better through time and experiences.
Have faith, derby people...

Rakim holds the microphone like a grudge :P

After watching the video quite a lot the past day or so ... the call seems quite clear, not confusing at all and textbook. The ref signals a cut track major. And continues to signal this call for nearly an entire lap until the skater exits the track.

The rules for what a cut track major is, are pretty clear (at least in my experience with them). So what's confusing, unclear or inconsistent about the call? What would a microphone added to the mix do to clear up what tends to be a pretty commonplace call in roller derby?

-WheelSmith

Three points of debate to

Three points of debate to that call:

1 - Did Smack Daddy get two points legally passing the first Carolina blocker before she started straddling the line?

2 - She was still straddling all around the turn and did not go fully in bounds until she slowed to go behind the pack.

3 - Passing by opposing blockers while straddling is not cutting unless she returns fully in-bounds from straddling ahead of those blockers.

the call you might disagree with but it was clear ...

That debate is more along the lines of if you agree with the ref's call or not. The call that the ref made was a cut track major, and the point at which the ref signals the call, the ref's call is basically stating that the jammer returned in-bounds ahead of multiple blockers and thus scored no points. The rules and the call are clear.

The debate about whether you agree with the call ... that's a whole other story.

:P

Using the ref mic

WheelSmith wrote:

The rules for what a cut track major is, are pretty clear (at least in my experience with them). So what's confusing, unclear or inconsistent about the call? What would a microphone added to the mix do to clear up what tends to be a pretty commonplace call in roller derby?

At the end of the ref conference, the head ref could just turn on the mic and say "Montreal challenged the point total on the last jam. The call during the jam was that Montreal's jammer committed a track cut major before scoring any points, and Carolina's jammer scored 5, including a box point on the penalized Montreal jammer, before calling it off. After the official review, that call stands. The final score is Carolina 127, Montreal 125."

Would have taken like 15 extra seconds, but at least it would have given a sense of finality to the bout and MASSIVELY cut down on the post-bout controversy. (This would have also been really rad at the end of Denver / Rocky Mountain at last year's Westerns.)

Also, your subject line is epic win.

NY Po Po

Justice Feelgood Marshall wrote:

Would have taken like 15 extra seconds, but at least it would have given a sense of finality to the bout and MASSIVELY cut down on the post-bout controversy. (This would have also been really rad at the end of Denver / Rocky Mountain at last year's Westerns.)

Not sure if you noticed, but the venue had police protection for at least the last two games on Sunday. You know, in case that shit got real. During some of those heavily booed calls, I'm sure they had hands on the ready to tase a bro.

?!

Er, the venue had a police presence for the whole weekend and I think you're probably reading way too much into that fact. I very much doubt it had anything to do with the boos/ref calls and more to do with general security of the venue and skaters/spectators.

Yeller Journalism

No, it just makes better copy. :)

To be fair, I didn't see any police until the third place game. Hence my couch of "at least the last two games". I also don't expect derby fans to re-create the Heysel stadium disaster, but you have to assume that the police have that in the backs of their minds during a controversial sporting event.

Controversial? Try HS basketball

I'm sure Apron was just kidding. In speaking with the police & security over the weekend, it turns out that they were all just dying to come by and watch some derby. Those who "won" the assignment were incredulous at how well-behaved the crowd was, particularly in comparison to some of the more heated High School basketball contests hosted there, when metal detector screening of attendees is the norm.

Lots of those security/police folks were there eating lunch & enjoying the bouts.

po po

TheCycrone wrote:

I'm sure Apron was just kidding. In speaking with the police & security over the weekend, it turns out that they were all just dying to come by and watch some derby. Those who "won" the assignment were incredulous at how well-behaved the crowd was, particularly in comparison to some of the more heated High School basketball contests hosted there, when metal detector screening of attendees is the norm.

Lots of those security/police folks were there eating lunch & enjoying the bouts.

We're required to have security at all our bouts. There a few cops that try to get that assignment because hey, free derby!! haha

There were police there all

There were police there all three days, but I think that they were mostly there for the evening bouts.

Time for some referee cross training?

Apron wrote:
Justice Feelgood Marshall wrote:

Would have taken like 15 extra seconds, but at least it would have given a sense of finality to the bout and MASSIVELY cut down on the post-bout controversy. (This would have also been really rad at the end of Denver / Rocky Mountain at last year's Westerns.)

Not sure if you noticed, but the venue had police protection for at least the last two games on Sunday. You know, in case that shit got real. During some of those heavily booed calls, I'm sure they had hands on the ready to tase a bro.

I was on the live call for the Charm/Boston bout. The boos lasted about 10seconds before we, on the table told the crowd to shut the hell up & go to ref training.....Lol...It was not as bad as it looks...small moment in an otherwise great weekend. Anyone who complains about reffin, needs to try it just once or shut the F#%$ up!

Boos

I am not sure why (maybe as I am a skater, not a ref) but I have never really viewed the boos when a penalty is called as people implying the refs made a bad call/are useless/whatever, more just general displeasure because their favourite team is then at a brief disadvantage. Let's face it, people aren't happy unless they have something to whine and moan about ;)

It must be disheartening for a ref though and there is never enough ref love out there! Refs ROCK! Where on earth would we, and this sport as a whole, be without them?!

skatas w/ attitude

Apron wrote:

Not sure if you noticed, but the venue had police protection for at least the last two games on Sunday. You know, in case that shit got real. During some of those heavily booed calls, I'm sure they had hands on the ready to tase a bro.

Yes, I'm very sure that in a gritty inner suburb like westchester county, the cops were very ready to go Rodney King on any skatas who were gonna go all riot fight over some ref calls they didn't like.

exactly

Quote:

At the end of the ref conference, the head ref could just turn on the mic and say "Montreal challenged the point total on the last jam. The call during the jam was that Montreal's jammer committed a track cut major before scoring any points, and Carolina's jammer scored 5, including a box point on the penalized Montreal jammer, before calling it off. After the official review, that call stands. The final score is Carolina 127, Montreal 125."

Would have taken like 15 extra seconds, but at least it would have given a sense of finality to the bout and MASSIVELY cut down on the post-bout controversy. (This would have also been really rad at the end of Denver / Rocky Mountain at last year's Westerns.)

Exactly this. To say "what don't you get about a track cut" is to imply that we all SAW that. I was watching from home along with hundreds of others and the chatter after this game surely suggested that nobody in fact saw that track cut. It seems the a lot of the audience in attendance also didn't see that track cut. This game is hella fast and not every infraction is obvious. So take the 15 seconds to explain what happened. Those who saw it and understand can be all "well duh" and the rest of us can get the clarification we obviously needed. That game was awesome and the shine of it was dulled as everyone sat there wondering just wtf the refs needed 6.5 minutes to huddle over.

I love when i watch the Rose City games online and they cut to the house announcer as he explains what all the hub bub is. Sure better than everyone just sitting there staring at the zebra huddle cursing the refs who are working hard at getting it right.

Lippy

Ref Mics are a Technological expense...

I'm just saying. The way that we work around this is to have an 'announcer ref' who hangs out at the announcer table, and is allowed to run in an eavesdrop on Official Time outs when they happen. One logistical difficulty at this event was that the in house announcers were across the track from the DNN announcers, and we all know how sound works in venues. I know I normally get only about every third word, no matter how good they try and make the sound quality.
It's not perfect, but it solves a lot of the problems in house, and if DNN is closer/able to hear the in house call, that usually works to pass the info on to the fans both at the venue and listening at home.

Ref-Announcer liaison? I'll take that, too!

My head ref comes by every now and then to give me the lowdown, but he's a busy man. If it's decided that having the refs themseves explain the huddle isn't practical, anyone else who wants to scoot on by afterwards and tell me (and the boutcasters) what's happening, they will be welcomed with open arms.

WTF

Lightning Slim wrote:

My head ref comes by every now and then to give me the lowdown, but he's a busy man. If it's decided that having the refs themseves explain the huddle isn't practical, anyone else who wants to scoot on by afterwards and tell me (and the boutcasters) what's happening, they will be welcomed with open arms.

We've been doing this for 2yrs now....The set up however was not condusive for the announcers & DNN but for the skaters.....People.....as an announcer, I have called over 250 bouts in 4yrs. I see missed calls all the time but would still never, in a million years question the professionalism of a WFTDA referee until I put on the stripes & do it myself....It is the hardest job in the game... I'll say to all of you what I said to the audience " Shut up unless you are wearing stripes & have instant replay ready to go".

Derby Love
-Rev Al Mighty

WTF^2

Rev Al Mighty wrote:

I'll say to all of you what I said to the audience " Shut up unless you are wearing stripes & have instant replay ready to go".

That's a terrible response: "Hey fans, we don't care at all what you think about what you're watching!"

Really? I'm sure that's not what you mean to say; but if I heard that from an announcer at a bout, I'd think they were telling me I wasn't wanted/needed there.

Uhh...Okay.

No idea if you're responding to me or the group in general. Are you saying that asking for a few words about their actions (on behalf of the fans) brings the integrity of an official into question? I've nothing but respect for the players, referees and fans of the greatest game on earth. I'm also looking for a way to bring transparency and coherence to the process so that everyone can enjoy it like I do.

EDIT: Looking back over the thread it seems we're in agreement on audience enlightenment. Just a bellicose defence of the game's hardworking officials?

Lightning Slim

Lightning Slim wrote:

No idea if you're responding to me or the group in general. Are you saying that asking for a few words about their actions (on behalf of the fans) brings the integrity of an official into question? I've nothing but respect for the players, referees and fans of the greatest game on earth. I'm also looking for a way to bring transparency and coherence to the process so that everyone can enjoy it like I do.

EDIT: Looking back over the thread it seems we're in agreement on audience enlightenment. Just a bellicose defence of the game's hardworking officials?

Not directed toward you at all......The group negativity regarding the refs calls & how they do things...I think its too easy to blame when you don't understand the all sides. it would be a perfect world if we could mic every tourney's head ref. have a ref at the table & a perfct set up. I think the ref crew did a good job this weekend...the teams that lost, lost. lets more on. I'm sure the referee's are doing everything they can to more forward & grow as a group.

Agreed!

The whole scene's a-growing, just like we want it to. And there will be growing pains!

-Slim

whoa

Quote:

We've been doing this for 2yrs now....The set up however was not condusive for the announcers & DNN but for the skaters.....People.....as an announcer, I have called over 250 bouts in 4yrs. I see missed calls all the time but would still never, in a million years question the professionalism of a WFTDA referee until I put on the stripes & do it myself....It is the hardest job in the game... I'll say to all of you what I said to the audience " Shut up unless you are wearing stripes & have instant replay ready to go".

Derby Love
-Rev Al Mighty

I'm not reading that anyone (including Lightning Slim) is asking announcers to question the refs on calls they are making. I think what I'm getting is that people would sometimes to appreciate knowing WHAT the call was. The announcer isn't going to guess if it wasn't clear. And come on, a 6 minute huddle? First timers might even leave if they are left to just stare at the track with nothing happening and no explanation why.

Derby is a sport and sports have fans.

If fans aren't mentally or emotionally invested enough to react to action on the track, I would wonder if they knew they were watching a live sporting event and not a choreographed show. That, or they're bored and they won't buy another ticket. I'd consider that a failure of all of our efforts.

I was asked multiple times on Sunday what my opinion was of fans booing a play or call and my answer was always positive. This is EXACTLY what we want--for people to get as excited about our sport as we do. Fans of all sports get wrapped up in the excitement of a game and react to the plays and penalties. There's a whole lot of adrenaline going on up in the bleachers (I thought I was going into cardiac arrest when I saw Gotham's jammer cover fall off in the last jam on Sunday), and thats why they keep coming back! Would you expect football fans with kegs, buffalo wings, and doritos to not yell at the tv screen? Soccer moms and tweens to not debate over Edward vs Jacob?

If a fan wanted to be a ref or skater s/he would be one, (and maybe they are), but at this moment, they just want to watch. Just watching doesn't mean they aren't invested in the outcome, and they still have varying degrees of understanding what is going on. When they see something they don't like they wave their arms in the air and exclaim "WHAT?!" or "I DISAGREE" (my personal preference) or call the wahmbualnce. And when great things happen, they wave their arms in the air and scream "YES!" or "HOLY GUACAMOLE!" or propose marriage. What is "right" and "wrong" is completely up to the fan; it doesn't have to be accurate or in agreement with the refs. That is the nature of fandom, and its effing awesome.

In summary: Let the fans be fans.

*For the record, I'm talking about normal outbursts by excited fans. I'm not condoning scary/douchey/belligerent behavior that would otherwise result in getting kicked out.

...and this is why I heart Anna

at least one reason. Well said.

I agree if they are fans

anna wrecksya wrote:

If fans aren't mentally or emotionally invested enough to react to action on the track, I would wonder if they knew they were watching a live sporting event and not a choreographed show. That, or they're bored and they won't buy another ticket. I'd consider that a failure of all of our efforts.

I was asked multiple times on Sunday what my opinion was of fans booing a play or call and my answer was always positive. This is EXACTLY what we want--for people to get as excited about our sport as we do. Fans of all sports get wrapped up in the excitement of a game and react to the plays and penalties. There's a whole lot of adrenaline going on up in the bleachers (I thought I was going into cardiac arrest when I saw Gotham's jammer cover fall off in the last jam on Sunday), and thats why they keep coming back! Would you expect football fans with kegs, buffalo wings, and doritos to not yell at the tv screen? Soccer moms and tweens to not debate over Edward vs Jacob?

If a fan wanted to be a ref or skater s/he would be one, (and maybe they are), but at this moment, they just want to watch. Just watching doesn't mean they aren't invested in the outcome, and they still have varying degrees of understanding what is going on. When they see something they don't like they wave their arms in the air and exclaim "WHAT?!" or "I DISAGREE" (my personal preference) or call the wahmbualnce. And when great things happen, they wave their arms in the air and scream "YES!" or "HOLY GUACAMOLE!" or propose marriage. What is "right" and "wrong" is completely up to the fan; it doesn't have to be accurate or in agreement with the refs. That is the nature of fandom, and its effing awesome.

In summary: Let the fans be fans.

*For the record, I'm talking about normal outbursts by excited fans. I'm not condoning scary/douchey/belligerent behavior that would otherwise result in getting kicked out.

At a home bout the fans are the highest percentage. I walked through that place time & time again. Let's face it, regional tournaments are not where we find our fans (at this point) I would say that most of the crowd 90% + are skaters, refs & support staff. My statement was made to the 90%. I actually had one of the few 'just fans" come up to me after thanking me for telling the crowd to stop booing....if a fan boo's, i appreciate it, if someone in this community is booing the referee's for not doing the job to the level they want..step up & try to do it better. We can grow & become better in time, but I support 100% the effort made by the referee & nso's ...

You can be a skater and a fan

You can be a skater and a fan at the same time. I guess I don't see booing as that big of a deal.

fan here!

Winona Fighter wrote:

You can be a skater and a fan at the same time. I guess I don't see booing as that big of a deal.

I agree. I am a HUGE fan of derby. I am as passionate a fan as I am a player. To say I can't boo like a "regular" fan doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe I just boo more appropriately because I'm more rule savvy than the "regular" fan?

-

I was saying boourns.

Actually

There was a time during the Boston-Charm bout when some people were booing, but then others of us were saying "Quebeauuuuuuuuum!" (for Lady Quebeaum, which is pronounced "Kabooooooom!") because she was about to jam. I tried as hard as I could to make it not sound like "boo", but there's only so much that can be done.

"Booooo" v "Quebeauuuuuuuuum!"

N8 wrote:

There was a time during the Boston-Charm bout when some people were booing, but then others of us were saying "Quebeauuuuuuuuum!" (for Lady Quebeaum, which is pronounced "Kabooooooom!") because she was about to jam. I tried as hard as I could to make it not sound like "boo", but there's only so much that can be done.

I hope that every time there is booing during a charm game, Lady Q assumes that they are actually cheering for her. Because frankly, she deserves it. That woman is amazing.

PS- booing is a part of sports, no one should take it personally.

Quebeaum!

Actually, there were a few Boston fans in the Charm cheering section yelling "Boo" I decided to turn it around and get everyone yelling "Quebeaum" over them, making them sound like they were cheering for her. It was awesome, and funny.

Shucks thanks.

That is a really nice thing to read this morning, guys. Just don't yell it at the airport.

BUUUUUUUSE!

Also keep in mind that Boston fans' cheers for Maura Buse can sound a lot like that other "B" word--which, as a skater and fan who was paying close attention to that game, I did also use at least once in reaction to a call. And yes, I have jam reffed in scrimmages, and I know reffing is extremely freaking hard, and I have a ton of respect for all derby officials. But I don't think that anyone in the game is "above" being booed by fans from time to time--and when I'm in the crowd rather than skating, managing or volunteering, then I am watching as a fan, and I am fired up.

Pointless Fun Fact

Charm City bouts at "DuBurns Arena" and it is affectionately known to many of us as "BooUrns Arena".

The Penalty

I was calling the game live, and we were sitting right off of turn #4, and I can say, at the time, that I did not see a track cut from the floor.

We also had to wait a long time before getting word that the final score stood, and we didn't get a good explanation until the next day as to what had actually happened.

I did see the video coverage after the bout, and while I didn't want it to be true, the track cut was very visible, and the referees made a great call on the floor in that regard.

I had only wished that a ref had come by after the game to tell us, so that we could explain it to the crowd.

Ditto.

Single-Malt wrote:

I did see the video coverage after the bout, and while I didn't want it to be true, the track cut was very visible, and the referees made a great call on the floor in that regard.

The vendor table for the derby quilt was right behind turn 4 and I totally missed a couple such penalties that were OMG obvious in the bout footage. At the time I wondered if I should get glasses, or seriously consider that ADHD medication my doctor suggested. However, a slightly different angle changed my tune.

Then again, I also totally failed this fun little test below, so it's probably good that I don't ref:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNdekYNzvzA

Indeed, awesome video.

Indeed, awesome video.

Same video?

Single-Malt wrote:

I did see the video coverage after the bout, and while I didn't want it to be true, the track cut was very visible, and the referees made a great call on the floor in that regard.

Is it the same footage that Gnosis put up or different another camera angle?

It would be awesome that the

It would be awesome that the Refs has access, or via some officials, to the video being recorded during the game. For any questionable calls, ask the vid officials to confirm, and then declare the final decision. Would have been quicker then 11+ minutes huddle(s).

that would be awesome. it

that would be awesome. it would also require consistency in video production, instant playback capabilities, and wouldn't necessarily make the OTO any shorter. I don't see that happening for a long time!

instant playback? not soon...

evie mcskeevy wrote:

that would be awesome. it would also require consistency in video production, instant playback capabilities, and wouldn't necessarily make the OTO any shorter. I don't see that happening for a long time!

Agreed. Having the video recorded != having instant playback capabilities.

What we see for instant replay in major pro sports requires that particular camera to be hooked up to a video recording device that costs about what a new Porsche did, even before things went all HD. Now multiply that cost by all of the desired camera angles in a production. Even scaling that down to our less aggressive production standards, it would still require an order of magnitude more in equipment and video crew.

And then there's the issue of finding enough video crew folks who understand the game, and can anticipate where the shot is GOING TO BE. All too often I still see shots where players (skaters & refs) critical to understanding what just actually happened are positioned out of the shot. I'd love getting that as part of the recorded video before asking for instant replay.

I also want to say that the video coverage of the NC and E regionals have been among the best I've seen so far, and look forward to seeing this vital aspect of this sport continue to grow and thrive.

Eastern Regionals

Will the video be available to be streamed online at any point?

If not...

If not, I'll let you know when my DVD of the Charm-Boston bout arrives. The first thing I did after I calmed down after that bout was walk over to the merch table and place my order.

thanks N8!

thanks N8!

RE-WATCH EASTERN REGIONALS

The video crew that was filming Eastern Regionals has made DVD copies of ALL bouts available for purchase:

http://www.gothamgirlsrollerderby.com/store/catalog/programs-posters-etc

DVD for the quality win

While we've got archives of the streamed action and we're working to post those to the relevant bout links, if you *really* want a good look at the bout, the DVD is the only way to go. Why? Much higher image quality. In order to stream video live over the internet, our gear has to mash it down into a highly compressed, lower quality format. While we've made great strides in optimising the streamed quality, you're never going to get something from a stream that will really compare with what can be burned to a disc.

Furthermore, DVD sales go a long way toward making it possible for crews like Steel Magnolia's production team to spend whole weekends like this. Do yourselves a favor: if you want to relive a bout in the best possible quality, *and* if you want to make these production values viable in the long term, treat yourself to a single DVD, a day's worth, or the whole boxed set.

Yes, but

Either I'm doing it wrong, or single DVDs are only currently available for the first 10 bouts. Is this an error on the website? Someone want to tell someone about it?

Someone told someone

... and now they are all there. Thanks N8!

ALL Dvds available now

Apologies for that - technical snafu - all individual bouts are now available on DVD!