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Four Corner Feud: Full Recap

Saturday

Opening Round: (t4) Denver 149, (t5) Tucson 99 -- The first half of the opening bout started with the teams neck and neck, with the game tied 4-4 after two jams and the lead switching hands on the subsequent four jams until Denver was holding a 17-12 advantage. The seventh jam, though, found Denver's Vicky Cruz with an appropriately slick 18-0 power jam victory over a very light pack that made it easy for the Denver defense to drop a couple of 20ft traps.

Two more double-digit jams from Denver put them in the driver's seat early with a 55-16 lead, and their defense had a chance to shine on the following jam when they managed to kill a power jam for Tucson's Polly Graf, who spent the full two minutes trying to complete her opening pass. Tucson got it together quickly afterwards, though, outscoring Denver 31-10 over the last few jams of the half.

In a bit of a strange sequence, TRD caught an unexpected break on the final jam. Tucson lead jammer Luce Bandit attempted to call the jam after her first pass but wasn't seen by her jam ref, who was looking away to report the score -- but when Luce saw opposing jammer Sheila Tack get sent to the box, she abandoned that plan and grabbed more points. Protestations from Denver captains Crash Dance Quigley and and Disco Akers went for naught, and the period ended with a 10-3 jam for Tucson and a 65-48 lead for Denver.

As the second half started, it appeared that Denver was going to pull away again, but a fierce comeback from Tucson started the game all over with about 15 minutes to play. Things got off on the wrong foot for TRD when their jammer Luce Bandit took a penalty that spanned the first two jams, which went 9-4 and 10-3 for Denver.

With the score 84-55 Denver, though, Tucson reached deep. Sami Automatic took a quick 4-0, and Luce Bandit followed up by redeemed herself with a enormous, momentum-swinging 14-0 jam -- with big help from TRD blocker Helen Wheels stifling Denver's Sheila Tack until Sheila fouled her way into the penalty box.

Even when Denver got two lead jams in a row they couldn't arrest the Tucson momentum, with a 4-4 tie and a 4-3 win for Tucson. Pixie Axe then won 7-0 over Disco Akers to get the score to 90-87 Denver, and finally a textbook 4-0 for Sami Automatic put Tucson in the lead 91-90, having erased a harrowing 39-point gap.

However, as they'd continue to do all weekend long, Denver's defense turned it on right when it mattered the most. Though there were 16 minutes left to play, Tucson could only find 4 more points as Denver's defense clicked into place, keyed particularly by Deirdre Sage and and Teresa Rusk. The second half of the period bore almost no relation to the first, as Denver closed the game with a 40-0 run, refusing to let Tucson score in the final 10 minutes.

Opening Round:
(t3) Pikes Peak 160,  (t6) Arizona 62 -- Pikes Peak took control early in this bout and never seemed in any trouble, playing a very physical and occasionally psychological game against an Arizona team that didn't quite have the agility to keep up with the dynamic PPDD.

Things kicked off with a full-length 9-4 for Pikes Peak's DeRanged over Shirley Demise, and Pikes extended the lead to 17-4 over the next two jams before Arizona's Gratuitous Violet managed to take a 6-0 in a power jam over Kamilla Bloodspilla. That made it 17-10 in favor of Pikes early, but that would be the last time the game was in any real question.

Pikes Peak began playing a style they'd favor all weekend long, with primary jammers Swiss Missile, PsychoBabble and DeRanged usually blocking the opposing jammers directly off the line and waiting for the pack to set up favorably before turning on the jets for their opening pass. This led to a lot of lead jam calls and a long dry spell for Arizona, as Pikes took 54 more points before Arizona could manage just one -- a stretch keyed by 15-0 for Ecko Girl followed by an even bigger 19-0 for DeRanged. With about 10 minutes to play in the first half, it was 71-11 for Pikes.

Though AZRD managed to get a little more offense moving in the final third of the half, it was still an all-but-insurmountable 90-28 lead for Pikes at the end of the first half, and there was no miracle comeback in the final 30 minutes for Arizona. Pikes pushed the margin to over 100 points late in the bout at 148-47, but Arizona managed to avoid that milestone with a couple of nice 5-0 power jam wins from Loca Lena and Shirley Demise to make the final score a 98 point margin at 160-62.

Fifth Place Bout: (t5) Tucson 135,  (t6) Arizona 49 -- Tucson was not quite as dominant as Pikes Peak in their battle with Arizona, but the final margin would end up being similar, as both teams looked a little depleted from their bouts earlier in the day but Arizona was suffering the additional disadvantage of having to play back-to-back bouts.

In an opening sequence somewhat reminiscent of the Tucson / Denver bout, the lead would switch early and often, but this time it'd be Tucson climbing into the driver's seat afterwards. AZRD took the first lead with a 2-0 jam for Loca Lena over the impressive young rookie from Tucson Luce Bandit, but Tucson took it back with a 3-0 Sami Automatic jam over AZRD's Gratuitous Violet. Arizona answered with a 4-0 that made it 6-3 Arizona, but Tucson rolled up 25 unanswered points over the next four jams.

WIth the score 28-6, it'd be Arizona's very impressive jammer Diana Saurus Wrexx capitalizing on two power jams. She followed some timely blocking from teammate The Bone Setter for a 10-0, and after a quick scoreless jam, was back on the line unopposed to notch a 3-0 against a tough Tucson defense.

Arizona had closed it to single digits at 28-19 and inched closer with a 1-0, but Tucson's Sami Automatic took that moment to put up the biggest jam of the game over rapidly dwindling numbers in the AZRD pack, a 20-0 that changed the game's momentum for good. The half ended on a big 15-0 for Luce Bandit over Rayna Rage, leaving Arizona in a 67-28 hole.

Much like in Arizona's first bout of the evening, the second half would end up being primarily a struggle to avoid a 100 point margin. Tucson threw 32 points up on the board before Arizona could squeak out a 1-0 win (in a jam that ended early due to a momentarily scary injury to the young Gratuitous Violet -- she'd leave the bout on that jam, having gotten hit in the chin in a messy pileup.) While TRD did hold a 101 point lead at the 5:43 mark, Arizona closed with a 5-0 and a 10-0 that managed to make the final score slightly closer than that of their battle with Pikes Peak.

Sunday

Heather Juska gets some air time. Photo: Elisa Baker.Semifinal: (t4) Denver 118, (t1) Duke City 71 -- This semifinal bout was all about momentum swings, but Denver's were longer and more pronounced. Denver opened up holding Duke to just a single point over the course of the first five jams, and established a 21-1 lead before Duke took back the initiative. A power jam for Duke gave Meep Meep a 10-0, and they continued to nickel-and-dime their way to a score of Denver 21, Duke City 18 with about 11 minutes left in the first half.

The rest of the first would be a rough time for Duke, though, as they didn't put another point on the board while Denver went on a 29-0 run, putting the halftime score at Denver 50, Duke 18.

Momentum swung right back as the second half began, with Duke slowly but surely stringing together single-digit victories and closing to within 53-35 before a bit of a mental error by Duke jammer Tronsexual handed Denver a free power jam. Tron was jamming unopposed and was then sent off to the box, but took an abnormally long time getting there, turning what would have been a jammerless jam reset into a power jam for Denver's Heather Juska. That one went 13-0 for Denver, erasing all but 4 points of the Duke comeback at 66-35.

But Duke got it all right back on a mirror image. Juska went to the box at the very end of that jam, giving Duke's speedy Muffin a chance for an unopposed minute of her own, and that went 13-0 in Duke's favor. Kamikaze Kim followed up with a 3-0, and with about 17 minutes to play, Duke was one big jam away at 66-51.

Denver, though, dropped the hammer on the subsequent jams, with defense utterly locking down the Duke jammers. Denver scored 37 unanswered points to get over the century mark at 103-51 with 8 minutes to play.  Though Duke managed to then answer those with a 20-0 run of their own, and had a prayer at 103-71 with 2:49 on the clock, Heather Juska definitively closed the door with a 15-0 in the game's last scoring jam, eliminating the top seed -- and the non-Colorado teams -- from the tournament.

In a statistical anomaly, the great majority of the scoring in this bout happened during lengthy unanswered streaks, including a 20-0 for Denver, 17-0 for Duke, 29-0 for Denver, 16-0 for Duke, 37-0 for Denver, and 20-0 for Duke.

Semifinal: (t3) Pikes Peak 120, (t2) Rocky Mountain 113 -- The most narrowly contested bout of the weekend started out looking like it was going to be all Pikes Peak, as they jumped out to an early 21-6 lead after five jams. However, jammer penalties would quickly become a major factor in a series of lead changes that led up to a controversial conclusion.

Photo: Charlotte GearyFirst, an enormous 19-0 power-jam victory for Rocky's She Who Cannot Be Named on jam 6 changed the complexion of the bout in a short 2 minutes, making it 25-21 Rocky Mountain. About halfway through the first period, Pikes capitalized on an unopposed jam for DeRanged with a 7-0 over a light pack and took the lead back 36-33, but momentum swung again a couple of jams later as Rocky's Frida Beater put down a 13-0 to make it Rocky Mountain 46, Pikes Peak 36 with under 10 minutes in the half.

Rocky Mountain held most of the control for the rest of the half, mostly on the back of one of Frida Beater's disturbingly common 20-0 jams, as she took full advantage of a chock-full Pikes penalty box. With the halftime score Rocky Mountain 81, Pikes Peak 66, Frida Beater's quadruple slam stood as the majority of the difference in the game.

Four jams deep into the second, though, it was time for Pikes Peak to answer loudly. They'd closed it to 84-75 when Kamilla Bloodspilla took the star against Frida Beater, and yet another jammer penalty -- a track cut on Frida -- paid great dividends to the opposing team. Kamilla followed perfect situational blocking from the PPDD pack to explode for a 20-0 of her own, and it was 95-84 with 23:37 to play in the bout.

Pikes continued to run it up to 108-84 for what stood as their biggest lead of the bout, but Rocky got it back together before things could get out of hand -- with more than a little help from box trips in consecutive jams for Pikes jammer Kamilla Bloodspilla. Rocky took 21 unopposed points on those two power jams, making it 108-105 with 11:30 to play.

Two scoreless and two extremely low-scoring jams later, Rocky had edged one point closer at 110-108 with about 6 minutes to play, but as it turned out, the deciding frame would be yet another power jam. Needing to open up some breathing room, Pikes sent DeRanged against Frida Beater, who hit the box early in the jam, leaving DeRanged alone for two grand slams that made it 120-108 for Pikes.

After a jammerless jam reset that Rocky called at 0-0, it seemed as if there would be time for two more jams. She Who put up a 5 point grand slam that narrowed the score to 120-113 and called it with approximately 30 seconds left on the scoreboard clock.

There would be no last-second jam, though. The bout ended here in a bit of a chaos, as RMRG bench coach Pinky500 attempted to call timeout -- but the officials ruled that the scoreboard time was not in sync with the infield official clock, and that time had already expired in the bout. Rocky didn't get their chance at the last-jam comeback, leaving Pikes Peak to explosively celebrate a very hard fought win that sent them to the championship.

Third Place Bout: (t1) Duke City 173, (t2) Rocky Mountain 93
-- The bye seeds ended up meeting in the third-place game instead of the championship, and Rocky Mountain, playing their second game in a row, came out of the gate a little flat against an energized Duke City. On the bout's second jam, lightning-quick jammer Kamikaze Kim tied her own scoring record with a 25-0 over a penalized Frida Beater, and after a 16-0 for Meep Meep with help from Dahmernatrix tying up RMRG's She Who for multiple laps, Duke was sitting on a 45-3 lead after just three jams.

Duke's Death Ro holds off the RMRG pivot. Photo: Charlotte Geary.Rocky Mountain continued to have particular trouble dealing with a Duke defense that was playing their signature extreme isolate-and-brake strategy to the hilt, leading a number of jams that brought the majority of the skaters to a near-dead stop. Duke City pushed their lead to 66-17 with under ten minutes to play in the half, but Rocky Mountain got it together enough to go on an impressive 41-11 run that made a game out of it at the intermission at Duke 77, Rocky 58.

Unfortunately for Rocky, they wouldn't be able to keep that run going after the break. Duke City came out on fire, using three big jams from Meep Meep, Kamikaze Kim and Muffin to break 100 before Rocky got back on the board on the 4th jam, making it 104-62 Duke. That was only a momentary respite, though, as Muffin dropped a big 16-0 on a battered Lil' Bitch and set off another Duke scoring run to 132-64.

With about 3 minutes left on the clock, Duke City had broken the 100 point margin with a 179-73 lead, and took the opportunity to jam their exclusive blockers on the last two jams. On the first Carson B. Demented got out first with lead, and was more than pleased to settle for a 0-0 against She Who, but the final jam would go big for Rocky Mountain's Ho J. Simpson over ElviraMental, getting Rocky more points in the final jam (20) -- than they'd scored in the entire half thus far (15.)

It was the final Duke City bout for four-year veteran Dahmernatrix, headed to play for San Diego this year.

Championship Bout: (t4) Denver 182, (t3) Pikes Peak 64 -- Proving themselves as the fastest-rising force in Western derby, Denver blasted off the blocks against Pikes Peak and took them out of their game both physically and mentally. The primary Denver jammer stable of Sheila Tack, Heather Juska and Angela Death pulled a 15-0, a 5-0 and a 10-0 to start the bout, and Pikes was stunned by a 30-0 deficit after just three jams.

Pikes didn't fold immediately, though, and their packs were able to create three lead jam calls in a row to answer, though they couldn't quite get the lopsided jams that Denver had opened with. After six jams it was 39-11 Denver, and what appeared to the slightly superior agility of the Pikes jammers was getting consistently trumped by the superior discipline and teamwork from the Denver blockers, with excellent recycling work that quickly began to frustrate the home team.

That frustration boiled over in a particularly bad way for Pikes with about 13 minutes left in the half, as they were looking at a 48-13 deficit. Pikes Peak pulled off a star-pass from Kamilla Bloodspilla to Psycho Babble (in what appeared to be part of a psychological-game strategy, Pikes Peak was the only team to be pulling star passes until the very end of the weekend) and it looked like PPDD might get a good margin when opposing jammer Sheila Tack was boxed. But Psycho Babble got exiled to the box and responded with a double-finger salute to her jam ref, earning herself an immediate game expulsion (although she wasn't quite done making her feelings known before actually leaving the track.)

With Pikes Peak suddenly down one of their best and most dangerous all-around players, the road to a home-team victory looked a lot rougher, and Denver made it all but impossible with incredibly effective play on both offense and defense that made them the only team to break 100 points before halftime on the weekend at 108-40.

Denver celebrates the win. Photo: Charlotte Geary.Things wouldn't look any better in the second half. An early sequence seemed to be representative of Pikes' troubles, as they went back to the star-pass attempt during a power jam, but Kamilla Bloodspilla couldn't complete the handoff. When she came back around to retrieve it, a heads-up block from the Denver defense knocked her away from the fallen star again, and Pikes lost the majority of their power play just trying to make somebody a legal jammer.

It was nearly all Denver to close the evening, although there was an extraordinarily rare double-star-pass jam about halfway through the final period that saw Kamilla Bloodspilla giving it over to Swiss Missile while Angela Death passed to Teresa Rusk for Denver. That one went 5-0 for Denver, making it 150-52, and Denver went on to finish out the game with the only 100 point margin of the weekend to put an exclamation point on their tournament victory.

Photos: Charlotte Geary, Elisa Baker, Andrew Dittmeier

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Some thoughts

First, I have to say I really enjoyed reading this recap, which I find surprising because I prefer way more profanity in my derby recaps.

Second thing, I want to thank all of our opponents this weekend. As coach for Denver, everyone of them presented us with different obstacles and all are stellar leagues and skaters.

Tucson scared the crap out of us with that comeback of theirs and we responded big to the adversity. That woke us up and IMO, that allowed us to excel the next day. Helen Wheels was a giant pain (with love) and Deadlock Doe was tough. Sami of course was a solid jammer, but Lucie caught us off guard. 18 year old chunk of rubber that one is. You can hit her body over the line, but it's much harder to get her feet out-of-bounds (and we sure as hell tried).

Then Duke, who pretty much embarrassed us last April, was high on our list and we wanted to win this rematch more than anything. Our losses to them and Gotham last year are what helped build this team. We know each other so well and like each other a lot; so, it was going to come down to who could impose their will on the game. On this day, we were able to dictate more often than not, but Duke never gave up and fought until the end. They are a first class bunch of ladies.

And lastly, PPDD. First off, I want to publicly congratulate them for finally beating RMRG after a number of tries. It was an entertaining bout from both teams, but considering Denver is still trying to get the KC monkey off our back, I was happier to see PPDD pull off the win. Besides, I like it when rankings get all mashed up. Anyway, our bout with PPDD was an entertaining one. Our leagues respect each other quite a bit and regardless of the score on that day, PPDD is a great team. De and Psycho are a handful for anyone to deal with and they have some other lesser known skaters (at least nationally) that are going to be pretty good in time (Echo Girl, Rushin' Bride, and the Swiss Missile spring to mind).

It was a pleasure playing all these leagues, whether it be the second time or the first time. Great bouts and we learned a lot from it. I'm not so sure any of us should start a season with a tournament though. haha I also want to give a ton of credit to my ladies. The blocking was extraordinary and the jamming was equally so. Thanks again for putting on a great tournament, PPDD.

Congrats

Angus

From what I saw on the videocast, you've got a talented athletic group of girls who skate well and showed some really good coordination in your blocking/pack play.

I won't be surprised if you guys are in Feasterville this November.

And I forgot

Thanks a lot to DNN coming down and giving this tournament national coverage.

And most importantly:

Viva La Real Names!

Rocky Mountain

Although I'm not fond of people tooting their own horns, as a co-captain, I must say that I'm really proud of my girls! When we lost Annia LateHer to a fractured rib in the first 10 minutes of our first bout, we were left with only *two* of our Fight Club blockers from last season (Winona Fighter and Assualtin Pepa who did an amazing job!). The majority of our tournament team was pulled from our B Team (The Contenders) and I think they were fantastic given the intense competition and pressure in the tournament. While we will be thrilled to have co-captain Catholic Cruel Girl, Madam Maim'Ya, and Ida Hustler back for our bout against Team Awesome, the fact that we hung in there speaks to the depth of our league and the courage of our players.
We were very close to backing out of the tournament due to all of the players who were unable to attend, but I'm so glad that we didn't. We pushed through adversity and took a beating; our whole league is all the better for it.

Thanks to Pikes Peak for organizing a great tournament and congratulations to DRD for your win.

Frida Beater
RMRG

p.s. RMRG looooves Biker Dave and wishes he lived in Denver.

Hey its nice to feel the

Hey its nice to feel the love once in a while 8)
Good luck to you Rocks this season...I'm sure we'll see ya in the Westerns!

Chairman Meow

Giving you the subject so you'll see!

"Hmm... I'm not a big fan of jammers stalling other jammer stoppage--often times it backfires, costing a lead jam as it just did Muffin. If you gotta do that, just burn a good few seconds and don't get too greedy and forget about your own scoring!"

It may not be clear from boutcasts, but a lot (see - most) of the jammer defense in this tournament was, as in the jam you're talking about, when a jammer is facing a 2 on 4 pack and wants to kill time on her blocker penalties so that she is more likely to get lead. I would say that it's much MORE greedy to expect to get lead in a 2 on 4 pack, or to think that you wouldn't be much better off with your teammates back in.

I only just started playing this game, though, so maybe you're right. ;)

And to everyone bitching about a slow game, p'shaw! Slow packs are a beautiful thing live if it's a brutal, lateral hit madness, frustrating grind! Fast isn't the only game out there, and I love fast!

-Muffin

Muffin

muffin wrote:

Giving you the subject so you'll see!

What's this? Someone's calling me out (meowt)? That's interesting!

Chairman Meow wrote:

"Hmm... I'm not a big fan of jammers stalling other jammer stoppage--often times it backfires, costing a lead jam as it just did Muffin. If you gotta do that, just burn a good few seconds and don't get too greedy and forget about your own scoring!"

muffin wrote:

It may not be clear from boutcasts, but a lot (see - most) of the jammer defense in this tournament was, as in the jam you're talking about, when a jammer is facing a 2 on 4 pack and wants to kill time on her blocker penalties so that she is more likely to get lead. I would say that it's much MORE greedy to expect to get lead in a 2 on 4 pack, or to think that you wouldn't be much better off with your teammates back in.

[/quote]
First of all, I totally agree with you on bravado backfire, and I do like running off some clock with D-jamming. However, I feel as though I've seen more lead jams gained by the short side than I've seen success with D-jamming. Though I used the word "greedy", I really meant "don't become so defensive to the point that you are effectively playing defense against yourself on your opponent's behalf." Once again, I'm not entirely opposed to D-jamming--only how I've witnessed it done: lingering too long and ultimately receiving a poor result for the effort. Hang with me here...

What I see happening all too often is that the other jammer finds a way to break through D-jammer coverage. This is unsurprising, since jammers are supposed to do that. The escaping jammer has a jump and more blocker help to get that lead call, leaving the D-jammer behind inside the outnumbered pack. meOWCH.

I have a theory on how things can be better: If you lock her down for some time and then intentionally surrender your hold on her to surge yourself forward a bit, you will have burned some amount of time and still be ahead a stride or two. Now, time and space are yours. You can just race off with this. You can also take a quick "breather" from the situation and then re-trap her. You can check if any of your teammates in the box are standing up yet. The idea here is to impose speed and context switches and create split-second confusion lags on her part for you to take advantage of. Also, J-on-J defense is such a spectacle and clear to ref's eyes that she can't risk charging you from behind, so she's probably still thinking diagonal if not sideways for a few split seconds--exploit that! (Assumption: all of this is taking place in the wide open track outside of blocker engagement zone.)

So how long should you sit on her? Well, you'd just have to make that judgement in the moment, but the point is to get out while the gettin's still good. As you approach the pack, you won't be way behind, her blockers will not be solely focused on you, and all of this would be after you burned some time off the clock. She might still get lead due to the blocker numbers advantage, but you'll have a better chance to get out of the pack yourself and trap her all over again. Drawing that stalemate when you should be down is a kind of victory. So, what I'm asking for here is the D-jammer to play it as short sits which can be chained, instead of thinking one long sit.

In short: command the situation, let go before it's too late, and you just might get them again. Flip the breakout advantage to yourself--you are the one breaking out, even though you were the one in front! Whoah.

I'm speaking very generally here. Remember: this is still a discussion of gambles in an already bad situation. Also, I'll have to watch this particular jam again, but do you remember if...

...either of your girls in the box were standing or close to getting out?

...this is what you were already doing? Stated differently: were you already thinking like I've described above and still have your coverage beaten or were you simply trying to hold her as long as possible?

In any case, the game was won by a healthy margin, so it's possible that none of this matters.

Also, a case where I love D-jamming and would love to see more: at the front of the pack, as both jammers are about to exit, the D-jammer slows the other jammer enough absorb her back into the pack before she races off!

muffin wrote:

I only just started playing this game, though, so maybe you're right. ;)

O RLY? Well, if you only just started, then that's hella impressive! You're already a household name: even people who failed geography in junior high now know where Albuquerque is thanks to you! (Wait, NEW Mexico is not part of Mexico? Huh?) Ok, maybe not everyone, but still...

muffin wrote:

And to everyone bitching about a slow game, p'shaw! Slow packs are a beautiful thing live if it's a brutal, lateral hit madness, frustrating grind! Fast isn't the only game out there, and I love fast!

Oh, now here's something we can completely agree on! Slow 'n Hard™ FTW! (* When appropriate.)

( '_')= (,,,)

Chairman Meow
Charm City Roller Girls
Baltimore, MD

DRD blew me away

I've had the opportunity to see DRD a number of times this last year. Though Madison had beaten them handily last Spring, it was one of those bouts that never felt as one-sided as the score indicated. I remember telling a few of the girls at that time that they were about 8 months away from scaring people. OK, I think I was off by a month. What people need to understand is this wasn't a good team over-achieving one weekend. This is a great team. One of the nation's best. Yeah, I'll put that out there without apologies. The defense is just damn frightening. They swarm to a jammer like a fast football defense does to the ball. Angus must have girls with ESP, because they all know where everyone on the track is and what their role is on every pass. Rusk, with little derby time under her belt, never misses a hit. She's amazing. Akers can leverage her body almost horizontally to move an opponent. Cruz, Sage, Quigby...the entire pack was brilliant. Brutal and smart. The offense nearly as scary. Angela Death was outstanding, as I expected she would be. Sheila Tak has advanced at an amazing pace. Her speed and movement resembles little of what I saw in Madison. The Tucson/DRD bout was about as hard hitting as I've seen for a bout that generated few penalties. I'm sold. I'm a fan. Congrats to the entire team. Because it IS a team. I've not seen chemistry like that very many times.

Hey, how many security guards does it take to get Angus to wear pants? I think he'd better fashion consult with Dump Truck. DT was apparently sportin' a pantless look considered too frightening. Viewers, thanks for tuning in, but for the love of all that is right, ignore any poll which asks pretty much anything about Dump Truck. Particularly whether or not he should wear pants! Sure, funny for all of you but you're not sitting next to him! I have a feeling there will be a lot of therapy involved. Next time, I'm sewing his shirt to his pants. Who am I kidding? I can't sew. Staple gun!

Bob Noxious
Announcer Mad Rollin' Dolls
Flyin' Squirrel
www.flyinsquirrel.com

Sans Pants

Bob Noxious wrote:

Hey, how many security guards does it take to get Angus to wear pants? I think he'd better fashion consult with Dump Truck.

Bob Noxious
Announcer Mad Rollin' Dolls
Flyin' Squirrel
www.flyinsquirrel.com

The male support staff in our league are generally anti-pants.

I think the security guards must have liked my pale, hairy legs much better than Dump's. It makes sense; hell, it's pretty much scientific.

Pants, please

I hasten to point out that I am a proud exception to this trend. Well, I guess there have been one or two bouts in shorts... but never a skirt or a diaper.

Thanks PPDD for a great tournament

On behalf of Duke City I want to thank PPDD for putting on a great tournament. I remember Count Smacula telling me at BrewCon in May 2008 about her dream to host a tournament with teams from CO, NM, AZ, and UT. This tournament has been a long time coming so thanks Smacs for dreaming big and PPDD for making it a reality.

On a personal note,it was such a pleasure to see all the teams there this weekend. Duke City has played all of the participating teams, except AZRD, and we have loved playing and watching all of you.

To RMRG, you guys ALWAYS give us a run for our money. We have grown up together and have persevered through all the challenges that were thrown at our leagues. It's always a pleasure to share the track with you.

To PPDD, my, my, how far you've come. Amazing job this past weekend. There is a special place reserved for you guys in the hearts of Duke City. You guys were 1 of 2 teams in the nation that had the guts to play is in our old, crazy, Mexican Ranchero bar venue. You guys play the game with heart and passion. You have a fistful of amazing players, De and Psycho, of course, but especially Swiss Missile and Kamilla. I am so impressed by how far you two have come. Believe me, your hard work has not gone unnoticed.

To DRD, you guys just warm my heart. I love playing you guys and you remind me why I love this game. Spectacular playing this past weekend. Congratulations and I look forward to our next rematch!

To AZRD and TRD, much love and respect. You guys gave birth to all the CO and NM leagues. We could not have done this without you. And for that I thank you. It was great to see all of you because it's been way too long. Great playing all around.

Lastly, thanks to all the refs that participated. Although, we may not all agree with your calls, we all agree that this couldn't have been possible without you.

And to DNN, great coverage. Thanks Hurt, Mercyless, Justice, and Moose.

Let's do this again next year!

Kamikaze Kim
Duke City

I concur

Thanks PPDD, what a great weekend of derby! Congrats to MHC - you definitely looked like an amazing cohesive force to be reckoned with in all of your games. And I also just want to copy Kim in stating my love for Kamilla and Swiss - you two just get more and more awesome on the track every time I see you play. Mushy love all around!

Anne Shank #13
Rocky Mountain Rollergirls

Real Names

Really- why? Why use your real name? To be different? I don't get it. I think if you have an alter ego why use your real name? I like having a separate name from my real name. My son thinks I'm a Super Hero because of it!

Reverse rebellion

litemeup wrote:

Really- why? Why use your real name? To be different? I don't get it.

While I do understand the question, this phrasing strikes me as hilarious.

JFM

Why is it so hilarious? Do

Why is it so hilarious? Do you want to be known by your real name in the derby world? If so, then why not now? Because people don't know you by your real name. That's why.

Also can someone please tell the DRD girl next to Disco to please wear panties!! This is a family fun sport!

Panties?

You want her to wear panties over her SKORT? Can't get much more coverage than that.

Real Names

Oh and while I was one who chose to be introduced by my real AND derby name but skate under my derby name, I can definitely say that using real names might have played in their favor. It definitely made it hard for skaters on the other team to tell their newer girls to look out for Boo Boo Radley when she was skating as Deirdre Sage. While I personally am quite attached to my derby name, I do see the future benefit of going the route of 99% of athletes in the world and at least going by Real "Derby" Name as we work on educating the rest of the world in the glorious sport that is roller derby and start getting the coverage we deserve.

Julie "Angela Death" Adams

Can't be dead yet, I hear it neighing.

litemeup wrote:

Why is it so hilarious? Do you want to be known by your real name in the derby world? If so, then why not now? Because people don't know you by your real name. That's why.

Sure we do. I've met Tracy, and I only see him as JFM when he's wearing skates/stripes. It's the difference between a person and a persona.

- bjmacke (a.k.a. Apron)

Panties!

I most certainly am wearing panties... Beautiful gold, shiny panties. There's just a shadow in the photo.

And as for real names vs. derby names, you obviously don't know my real name or my derby name, so what's it matter to you what I call myself?

Signed,

"the DRD girl next to Disco"

Derby is Punk Rock

And while I am all for the continuing legitimacy of the great sport of Roller Derby I personally could care less about Derby being "family friendly". Derby is great because its EDGEY and FRINGE and rebellious good fun!
May I weigh in on Derby vs "real" names now?? Dont do it!! Real names are boring!! Derby names are fun!! Keep the wacky Derby names!!!
Derby is Punk Rock baby...lets keep it that way.

Donny Ramone?

Hey Biker_Don I think I figured out your real last name. Is it Ramone?

My alternate derby name...

Bottle of Smoke wrote:

Hey Biker_Don I think I figured out your real last name. Is it Ramone?

If I hadn't already had a couple of fezes and wasn't getting called something I didn't enjoy due to them, I might have chosen the name "Zeppo Ramone." Someone with a Ramones-esque hairdo should do so.

-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Sin City Stat Pack
Fabulous Sin City Rollergirls

Real vs Derby Name

Yes Biker Dave! I'm with you on that. Derby names are fun and I do love the sport- otherwise I wouldn't be playing. As for going by your real name to try and trick the other teams- Doesn't work, at least for me it doesn't. I look at your face not your name- I don't see your name when I am skating I see your face and the style in which you skate. This way I know who to smack down on the floor.

It was a question- I had the right to ask. thank you all for your input.

Maybe you should preview

Maybe you should preview this in color! I'd love name brand of the panties you are wearing! How do you wear gold panties over your skort, Ariel Quigley?

Seriously?

I'm not exactly sure what you'd like me to preview, but I've had plenty of opportunities to see my own panties in color, thank you very much. If you'd like a pair of your own they can be purchased at American Apparel. And I suppose I do like to be different, whether I'm using my real name or wearing a skirt instead of a skort.

Do you have any comments on the way we played this past weekend? Because I don't believe our names, or my panties, had anything to do with that.

http://flickr.com/photos/andrewdittmeier/2922954632/in/set-7215760780050...

Hi larious

I can't speak for JFM, but I can tell you why *I* thought it was funny. Because really, to say a girl going from Disco-A-Gogo to Tracy Akers is doing it because she wants to be different or rebellious is not a little ridiculous. I actually thought you were kidding until you posted again.

The way I see it, using given names instead of derby names for all-star bouts is another step in the long climb to be acknowledged as a legitimate sport. The number of times I have heard something like "you use fake names? what, like strippers?" when trying to explain the best sport in the world is depressing. Either way, it's still up to the individual skater. If you want an alter-ego then go for it, make one. If not, well then don't.
Oh! Also, I really liked how the announcers handled the switch. Mentioning "Disco Akers" and "Boo Boo Sage" was a near seamless blend of real names, and recognized names.

And never fear. Crash's spankies, like her skates and helmet, (and moon-boots, if you are lucky enough to see them) are her signature shiny gold. Nothing naked about them :)

Wow

Didn't see this until I posted my comment below ... apparently, you DO speak for me on at least two topics.

JFM

Bait and switch

Berlin wrote:

The way I see it, using given names instead of derby names for all-star bouts is another step in the long climb to be acknowledged as a legitimate sport. The number of times I have heard something like "you use fake names? what, like strippers?" when trying to explain the best sport in the world is depressing. Either way, it's still up to the individual skater. If you want an alter-ego then go for it, make one. If not, well then don't.

Wasn't part of the appeal of new wave derby was that there are aspects that AREN'T like mainstream sports? I HATE mainstream sports. With a passion. If roller derby were more like mainstream sports in some of the extraneous ways, I wouldn't want to be involved in it.

I think one of the best aspects of this version of derby is the bait-and-switch between the fake skate names and the real athleticism of the game. People come in with one idea of what it's going to be like, and by the end of the first period they're most likely going to be fans because their minds are blown by having their expectations smashed to bits.

TARA ARMOV #51

LA Derby Dolls

Interleague Task Force
Training Team Co-Head

"That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story"

mainstream=boring

"I HATE mainstream sports. With a passion. If roller derby were more like mainstream sports in some of the extraneous ways, I wouldn't want to be involved in it."

Long time lurker, first time poster. Tara- totally agreed. The mainstream is boring as hell to me, this is a punk sport (similar to the spirit of skateboarding or snowboarding). But the cool thing about it-- it's still team based. I'd hate to see the "edge" cut off via too realistic aesthetics, boring styles of uniforms, or anything else that hearkens towards NBA. Famous skateboarders and other extreme athletes still set style trends in their clothing. Yes they do use their real names, but they probably WISH they would have thought of this long before derby girls. It's one of the things which makes this better than skateboarding (in addition to the team aspect).

Also the bait and switch is totally true, it's not ALL punk, or ALL show- there IS real sport here (just as there is real sport in extreme sports). I love that aspect of the pure athleticism- as much as I love the punk.

www.frozencodebase.com

It's hilarious because

Only in the derby world would you be considered "different" by doing something as incredibly basic as using your real name.

I'm right on the fence about this whole topic, though, and so I think I like it best when (derby name) + (real last name) creates a coolly assonant name of its own (my favorites from the weekend: Crash Dance Quigley, Disco Akers, Slick Vicky Cruz.)

JFM

As the debate goes, there

As the debate goes, there are real world issues involving real names. Typically, when you apply for a job now, particularly a professional one, the first thing anyone does is Google your name. If 20 times as much Derby stuff shows up as your professional stuff, they'll wonder if you are serious about your career.

Also, for skaters who teach in public school, they could lose their jobs if knowledge of their derby sideline became common knowledge among students. Parents aren't always rational about such things.

Until derby becomes a full time profession of its own, skate names allow skaters to insulate (somewhat) their jobs from their avocation.

Ironically in my case, far more people know me by my nom de plume than my real name. I think that's the case for most of the skaters in the game today. The only thing a real name really gets you, is it makes it easier to find embarrassing photos from high school and for complete strangers to look up your phone number and address in the phone book.

And if you make enemies in the derby world, it makes it easier for someone to anonymously act against you.

Mainstream athletes are at an advantage in some of these situations. Conventional sports accomplishment can work in your favor. Unconventional can cause employers to panic at the increased cost of their insurance premiums, as an example, were you to be injured. They may also see participation in a hardcore contact sport as affecting your reliability if you can't do your job with a leg or arm injury.

That's not to say that steps toward mainstreaming roller derby incrementally are undesirable. But just that it should be an evolution not a revolution. A lot of skaters wouldn't be able to participate anymore if there were significant pressure to use real names at this time.

This is an amateur sport with aspects of the professional. It's professional in many ways except that skaters still need a different source of income. Until it becomes that paying profession where skaters no longer have to lead a split life, one which won't tarnish the careers they might return to when they or their teams no longer feel that they contribute to winning (if it's a pro sport, winning is everything), then you can expect fairly uniform acceptance of the use of real names.

For me, one of the great things about this sport is the wide cross section of people who are participants. Once real names are common, you can expect that cross section to be much narrower. If that time is coincident with the time when most of the skaters are lifetime athletes (which is inevitable), then it would be a natural evolution.

--
Busta

FUD

Bustaarmov wrote:

Typically, when you apply for a job now, particularly a professional one, the first thing anyone does is Google your name. If 20 times as much Derby stuff shows up as your professional stuff, they'll wonder if you are serious about your career.

Does your employer expect you to tramp around the Internet about your real job? If so, you'd be in a minority. If you want to know my industry, find me on LinkedIn - it's the only place I even mention it. Most references to my online life are derby and alcohol. Hasn't been a problem yet.

Bustaarmov wrote:

Also, for skaters who teach in public school, they could lose their jobs if knowledge of their derby sideline became common knowledge among students. Parents aren't always rational about such things.

That's more a commentary on public schools than derby. If a derby girl feels the need to be in the closet about it, then there's larger issues at play. Education and collaboration will, gradually, eliminate that problem.

Bustaarmov wrote:

Until derby becomes a full time profession of its own, skate names allow skaters to insulate (somewhat) their jobs from their avocation.

Sort of like how MMA fighters are mainstream?

Bustaarmov wrote:

Ironically in my case, far more people know me by my nom de plume than my real name. I think that's the case for most of the skaters in the game today. The only thing a real name really gets you, is it makes it easier to find embarrassing photos from high school and for complete strangers to look up your phone number and address in the phone book.

You're kidding.. you don't think there are embarrassing pictures of derby girls with their skate names attached? There's a whole subset of photographers in derby champing at the bit to get such pictures so they can post them on the Internet. Whether or not the picture has your real name attached to it, it's still an embarrassing picture of you.

Bustaarmov wrote:

And if you make enemies in the derby world, it makes it easier for someone to anonymously act against you.

Those of us who live outside Los Angeles realize that such things are solved by the police.

Bustaarmov wrote:

Mainstream athletes are at an advantage in some of these situations. Conventional sports accomplishment can work in your favor. Unconventional can cause employers to panic at the increased cost of their insurance premiums, as an example, were you to be injured. They may also see participation in a hardcore contact sport as affecting your reliability if you can't do your job with a leg or arm injury.

So a broken leg you got from ice hockey wins you sympathy from your employer, but a broken leg from derby will get you fired? Please, someone, find a citation of that in the last five years and I will help you find an awesome attorney that'll make you rich.

Bustaarmov wrote:

That's not to say that steps toward mainstreaming roller derby incrementally are undesirable. But just that it should be an evolution not a revolution. A lot of skaters wouldn't be able to participate anymore if there were significant pressure to use real names at this time.

Who's pressuring whom? I didn't get the impression that the Denver skaters were about to pillory skaters who didn't want to use their real names. Did Denver beat Pike's Peak because PPDD felt embarrassed they were skating under pseudonyms? Has Sarah Hipell guilted her Detriot teammates into using their real names?

Bustaarmov wrote:

This is an amateur sport with aspects of the professional. It's professional in many ways except that skaters still need a different source of income.

You mean like professional la crosse?

Bustaarmov wrote:

Until it becomes that paying profession where skaters no longer have to lead a split life, one which won't tarnish the careers they might return to when they or their teams no longer feel that they contribute to winning (if it's a pro sport, winning is everything), then you can expect fairly uniform acceptance of the use of real names.

The split is caused by self-embarrassment. If you don't want to be known as a skater, then stay in the closet. But realize that there are people out there who have zero problems being known, all the time, as a derby skater.

Bustaarmov wrote:

For me, one of the great things about this sport is the wide cross section of people who are participants. Once real names are common, you can expect that cross section to be much narrower. If that time is coincident with the time when most of the skaters are lifetime athletes (which is inevitable), then it would be a natural evolution.

Please enlighten us on how that logical leap is possible. So if skaters start using their real names, that means that it will sap the diversity of derby? Do you have a precedent? Analogy? Anything? Please, hit reply. I'm dying here.

- bjmacke (a.k.a. Apron)

In defense of no one...

...and not taking a side in this, I'd like to share that when I was Mktg/PR girl for WFTDA I was contacted by skaters on non-WFTDA rookie leagues for advice on lawsuits 3 times: once by a teacher who lost her job because she was outed in a local newspaper story about her league, and some parents of her students were upset, and twice because a soon - to - be ex - husband was trying to use derby to prove a skater/mother unfit to parent in a divorce/ child custody dispute. The law suits, they do happen. - xxxooo Mercy Less

Real names easily found; derby still fun; clichés dying anyway

Regarding search engine results, pretty much anyone who has been quoted in an article about their league in a real newspaper has had their real name published alongside their derby name (in "by day"/"by night" fashion) and can be easily outed. With a recent Google search I've also stumbled across USARS documents showing pretty much every insured skater's real name and derby name side-by-side. And for all the creativity poured into derby names, people tend to not be very creative with their online accounts; a determined searcher in Human Resources is like a stalker and will make indirect connections by searching for email addresses and non-derby nicknames used on photo sharing sites, social networking sites, message boards, and blogs. So any job security predicated on hiding one's association with derby is at least partly an illusion; for some it's just a matter of time before they're found out. Regardless, while it's a factor for some, I doubt this is really the reason most players use derby names.

To respond to another comment, I don't see how players choosing to skate under their real names, or for that matter, abandoning any of the clichés associated with the modern revival, takes any fun out of roller derby. If roller derby is no fun without the attention-seeking or the raunch (even tongue-in-cheek varieties, like many-a derby name), then maybe it's not a sport after all. I thought sport and fun were synonymous by definition; what makes it a sport makes it fun.

Personally I find plenty to love about derby, even as it continues to shed various accoutrements defined in that blueprint so successfully laid down by the first all-women's leagues which were steeped in early/mid-'00s Austin & greater Texas culture. I mean it's not just names that are changing. Look at the evolution of uniforms, look at how fighting and penalty games are already several seasons passé, look at how flat tracks are increasingly championed rather than resigned to, look at the rise of family-friendly bouts and junior leagues. Derby with these changes isn't as fun, in some sense, as derby-as-adult-entertainment was, but from where I've been sitting, derby sure is more fun than ever.

Derby names will be with us for a good while, I'm sure; some skaters even on the Mile High Club won't be abandoning them, each for their own reasons. But I think we're seeing the start of a trend; those skaters who have been feeling their own humorous aliases are unnecessary are now starting to defy tradition and peer pressure, be it real or imagined. The effects of this I think will be somewhere between absolutely neutral and immensely positive, so they have my support. Two years from now I wouldn't be surprised to see real and combined real+derby names occupying at least half of the rosters of the top and mid-tier travel teams ...as well as an evolution toward more interesting and creative alternatives to played-out branding like rockabilly fashion and mudflap-girl/burlesque iconography, especially as press coverage moves beyond constantly re-introducing the sport and junior leagues get more traction and visibility.

Either way, I'm in this for the long haul. Go, derby, go!

Also I don't want to be called out for posting under an alias so I'll reveal my real name is Mike Brown, nicetameetcha. I'm neither the NBA coach nor the disgraced FEMA guy nor the despised NFL owner. I'm just a Denver Roller Dolls fan, occasional tournament-goer, and former derby widow. I'm also responsible for a significant portion of the roller derby content on Wikipedia. My name on here, mb5311, is just my initials and my elevation - boring, I know! :)

In my non-mainstream opinion

In my non-mainstream opinion the "mainstream" sucks. Mainstream ANYTHING. Thats why I adore Derby and not the friggin' NBA. Tara is right.

Mainstream?

If everyone in derby uses fake names then that has become mainstream for derby. Subsequently, isn't using a real name in derby going against the "mainstream"? Maybe the Mile High Club is the new counter-culture movement! ;)

I play derby because I like the sport. I don't want to be known for a fake name or alter ego. I want to be known for my skating and teamwork. I don't need a fake name for that. Were the bouts we skated in this tournament less exciting because we used real names? I don't think it mattered.

I want to be proud of the sport I play and talk about it with my relatives, co-workers, and professional acquaintances. Sometimes that is hard to do because some skaters choose to use explicit and vulgar skater names. I wish that it wasn't a problem, but for those of us with professional careers it is difficult.

Using real names or fake names isn't going to change the awesomeness of roller derby. The hard hits, pack strategy, jammer take outs, and 20 point jams will all still be there. Isn't that what really matters?

The skater formerly known as Jersey Trouble
Denver Roller Dolls - Mile High Club

Just to latch on

Bustaarmov wrote:

As the debate goes, there are real world issues involving real names. Typically, when you apply for a job now, particularly a professional one, the first thing anyone does is Google your name. If 20 times as much Derby stuff shows up as your professional stuff, they'll wonder if you are serious about your career.

This ties into a question I often get. I was involved in Old school derby for some time and professional wrestling for over 20 years. I have also been a school teacher and a prosecutor in two different states. Whenever people ask me if my employers have known I always say, "yeah, it's on my resume." Never hurt me a bit.

Bustaarmov wrote:

Also, for skaters who teach in public school, they could lose their jobs if knowledge of their derby sideline became common knowledge among students. Parents aren't always rational about such things.

Sadly, something like that happened to one of our skaters on the local team. But that had far more to do with the marketing than the sport. The risque and vulgar names and imagery were problematic for this conservative community. That was never her fault. If the ladies had marketed in a different direction (as they do now) there would not have been a backlash.

Bustaarmov wrote:

Until derby becomes a full time profession of its own, skate names allow skaters to insulate (somewhat) their jobs from their avocation.

Bustaarmov wrote:

And if you make enemies in the derby world, it makes it easier for someone to anonymously act against you.

What kind of petty people are you dealing with out there? Whatever happened to the old adage about handling business on the track. I know this is dealing with mostly women here but....oh i will shut up on that point now.

Bustaarmov wrote:

They may also see participation in a hardcore contact sport as affecting your reliability if you can't do your job with a leg or arm injury.

All those years of Rugby, wrestling, martial arts while also doing my professional job and for some reason no over ever said that to me. I think all my friends back in new England who were playing hockey right after work would say the same.

Bustaarmov wrote:

A lot of skaters wouldn't be able to participate anymore if there were significant pressure to use real names at this time.

Then maybe they love being a character more than they love skating.

Bustaarmov wrote:

This is an amateur sport with aspects of the professional. It's professional in many ways except that skaters still need a different source of income..

It is a business. And most take it seriously, I will grant you that. You dont need it to be your main source of income for it to be professional however.

Bustaarmov wrote:

For me, one of the great things about this sport is the wide cross section of people who are participants. Once real names are common, you can expect that cross section to be much narrower. ..

Sorry, but this really chaps the hide. Roller Derby always drew from a cross-section. It was integrated before other sports, homosexuals had a strong presence before there ages before the gay rights movement. I know many of you like to act as if everything you are doing now is cut from whole new cloth but it is not. Its derivative of something else and that something else is part of what packs them in. One of those things is an exciting chance to skate and no matter what name you use that will not change.
Though, interestingly, i do see a lot less racial diversity now then I saw back then. No idea why though.

Ocho Almighty

sonofapreacherman wrote:

I was involved in Old school derby for some time and professional wrestling for over 20 years. I have also been a school teacher and a prosecutor in two different states.

Aha! After months of reading posts, this makes them all make sense: old-schooler, pro wrestling, lawyer/teacher. It's all so clear to me now... LOL. ;)

BTW, I really HATE my real name: Steve Haldeman, but I'm totally happy with my derby name: Quad Almighty. So, if everyone else eventually changes to their real names (and I don't have an issue with that) then I'm going to Florida and changing my real name to Ocho Cinc... I mean Quad Almighty. :)

Oh, and...

...Congratulations to Denver!

Re: Oh, and...

Thanks Quad!

NOW its clear?

quad.almighty wrote:

Aha! After months of reading posts, this makes them all make sense: old-schooler, pro wrestling, lawyer/teacher. It's all so clear to me now... LOL. ;)

I would have thought my positions and biases were very clear. But in case you need more Quad (and I highly doubt you need or want it, but my ego wont let me stop),

You can add former High school and collegiate athlete (football, baseball, wrestling), former coach (football, baseball, wrestling), current flat track coach and contemplating going back to old school derby. Too much other stuff to mention.

As for my biases (in the interest of full disclosure) :
1) I prefer flat track to no Derby
2) I prefer banked track to flat track
3) I prefer some rules to no rules in Derby (so i prefer WDTDA to Renegade style if pushed)
4) I prefer Old school rules (yes, there are actual rules and I do know them) to WFTDA rules ( Hate WFTDA's passing the star, the lead jammer rule and the varities of blocking are too limited for my taste).
5) I prefer games with some color to games with none.
6) I prefer an ad-libbed game to scripted
7) I prefer straight to ad-libbed (and said it for years before all the new wave started)
8) I prefer 60 second jams to 2 minutes though 2 minutes is True Old school (1940s and 50) and it is really wash in the end. Just stuck in my way.
9) I prefer real names to Derby names and sometimes Derby names to real ones. Depends on what the skater wants to me.
10) I believe in the sweet spot of the bat ...no, wait. that's Bull Durham.

Steve Haldeman v. Quad Almighty? I gotta agree, Quad Almighty will move more merchandise.

Professional Career vs. Derby Career

I've found out about my last two jobs through derby connections and I've definitely used my derby experiences in the business and leadership side of things to enhance my resume. But then I'm one of those people who's worked hard to end up with a job where I'm allowed to dress how I want and be respected for who I am and good work that I do rather than working in a rigid corporate environment that frowns upon the different and requires me to "play dress up" in business casual.

I also know plenty of business professionals/skaters who proudly proclaim their accomplishments on both sides of the track without feeling the need to keep their derby career a secret from the professional side. When it comes down to it, MY derby career and my professional career are intertwined. That's why it's important to me that derby is marketed as the legitimate sport and business that it is and not as "adult entertainment," which I consider insulting, as should anybody who puts in the amount of time and dedication it takes to run a league and play the sport.

To Each Her Own

Angela Death wrote:

I've found out about my last two jobs through derby connections and I've definitely used my derby experiences in the business and leadership side of things to enhance my resume. But then I'm one of those people who's worked hard to end up with a job where I'm allowed to dress how I want and be respected for who I am and good work that I do rather than working in a rigid corporate environment that frowns upon the different and requires me to "play dress up" in business casual.

I also know plenty of business professionals/skaters who proudly proclaim their accomplishments on both sides of the track without feeling the need to keep their derby career a secret from the professional side. When it comes down to it, MY derby career and my professional career are intertwined. That's why it's important to me that derby is marketed as the legitimate sport and business that it is and not as "adult entertainment," which I consider insulting, as should anybody who puts in the amount of time and dedication it takes to run a league and play the sport.

Whoa, "adult entertainment" as in...pr0n?!

I know it's hard to believe, but there are still some places in the work world where saying that one is in derby isn't the best thing for professional purposes. For those who find themselves in that situation, they find having a skate name to be a handy thing. The ones I personally know tend to not do interviews, etc. to help with the separation between fun and work.

I know that for myself, having Tara Armov be separate from my "day persona" is handy...people are nervous around me enough as it is because I tend to be intimidating under the best of circumstances...to say that I skate as Tara Armov says, "You think THIS is scary? Try meeting Tara!" and that actually puts people at ease...at least a little bit. Sorta.

Well, maybe not. Ha!

TARA ARMOV #51

LA Derby Dolls

Interleague Task Force
Training Team Co-Head

"That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story"

But TARA

You are so good at what you do on that track you should have the world knowing.

Oh, they know...

The people who need to know definitely KNOW.

TARA ARMOV #51

LA Derby Dolls

Interleague Task Force
Training Team Co-Head

"That Which Does Not Kill You Makes For A Good Story"

A couple of things...

sonofapreacherman wrote:
Bustaarmov wrote:

And if you make enemies in the derby world, it makes it easier for someone to anonymously act against you.

What kind of petty people are you dealing with out there? Whatever happened to the old adage about handling business on the track. I know this is dealing with mostly women here but....oh i will shut up on that point now.

I'm a GUY with a derby cyber-stalker out there. And I've gotten an unwelcome phone call from that person or a friend of his, so yeah. Someone I'd never meet on a track because neither of us skate.

sonofapreacherman wrote:

Though, interestingly, i do see a lot less racial diversity now then I saw back then. No idea why though.

Back then derby was presented on one of your three or four local TV stations. Everyone, white, black, plaid watched the same TV. Once Darlene Anderson broke the color barrier, it was only a matter of time before black skaters joined up.

I once asked a skater from a city with a LARGE black population about how her team was all-white. Her quote, "We WISH they'd join!" Roller derby spreads through the grapevine, through the music scene. Sadly those are two things which still tend to self-segregate. Roller derby now tends to be seen as a "white thing."

In addition, not only are there far fewer rinks out there, they tend to be further out towards the lily-white 'burbs.

As for ways to fix it, leagues with minority skaters probably need to try to have those skaters talk to their local minority press. Drop Skinny Minnie's name and point out how Beyonslay is the most feared blocker in the sport. Substitute Rice Rocket/Kamikaze Kim/Hyperlynx/etc as needed. Those papers tend to be looking for local stories. The white girls in the league won't get ink from those papers anyways.

-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Clipboard Monkey
Roc City Roller Derby

Ohh Poohbah needs a TRO

Poobah wrote:

I'm a GUY with a derby cyber-stalker out there. And I've gotten an unwelcome phone call from that person or a friend of his, so yeah. Someone I'd never meet on a track because neither of us skate.

Talk about shooting the messenger. I guess times have changed when it gets that bad. I suggest a temporary restraining order. I know how to write those you know

Poobah wrote:

Back then derby was presented on one of your three or four local TV stations. Everyone, white, black, plaid watched the same TV. Once Darlene Anderson broke the color barrier, it was only a matter of time before black skaters joined up.

Why Poobah, I misjudged you. Here I was thinking you hated old school. I will see your Darlene Anderson though and raise you one George Copeland (the best I ever saw in any form of Derby anywhere)

Poobah wrote:

Roller derby spreads through the grapevine, through the music scene. Sadly those are two things which still tend to self-segregate. Roller derby now tends to be seen as a "white thing."

I have to partially agree with that. I have noticed this great sentiment that the New Wave Derby is 'Punk'. Punk never had much appeal in the black communities. Skating on the other hand sure did. So the demise of quads may have played a big part. I would hate to see this new wave turn into hockey though when its a original history was a bit more fresh. I do recall one flat track game where one black lady from another team came to me and said, "Wow. 3 of us here. Derby hasn't seen that I bet" I had to chuckle, but say I did notice that lately.

Poobah wrote:

In addition, not only are there far fewer rinks out there, they tend to be further out towards the lily-white 'burbs.

That is probably the bingo quote. Then again, how many of the new wavers got into derby and were not skating at all? A great deal from what I hear. So it could be something else.

Poobah wrote:

As for ways to fix it, leagues with minority skaters probably need to try to have those skaters talk to their local minority press.

Presuming they want to run a story on a team with one or two minority skaters and an overwhelmingly non-diverse audience. The best place for a story like that is the Rollercon maybe, but I have no idea how diverse that has gotten. [/quote]

Poobah wrote:

Drop Skinny Minnie's name and point out how Beyonslay is the most feared blocker in the sport.

Do you mean "drop" as in forget it or drop as in 'mention' it? if the former, then there is no value in that. Gwen is legendary. If the latter, you have to be either NYC or a die-hard fan to ever see Beyonslay, unfortunately. A few highlights on the net won't be enough. But she is famous enough within those circles that she would be the perfect person to do a story on. Personally, I would love to see her out in CA in a pro league starting a new era. Just 10 minutes on a banked track with some gloves off and that girl is a megastar in the making. Were I building a pro league she would be on of my first 10 picks But I digress.
By the way, I see your Skinnie Minnie and raise you Delores Tucker.

Poobah wrote:

Substitute Rice Rocket/Kamikaze Kim/Hyperlynx/etc as needed.

What I twit I am, I had not even considered asians. Which is ironic considering that Japan started flat track derby. Need to broaden my mind a tad there.

Outreach

sonofapreacherman wrote:
Poobah wrote:

Back then derby was presented on one of your three or four local TV stations. Everyone, white, black, plaid watched the same TV. Once Darlene Anderson broke the color barrier, it was only a matter of time before black skaters joined up.

Why Poobah, I misjudged you. Here I was thinking you hated old school. I will see your Darlene Anderson though and raise you one George Copeland (the best I ever saw in any form of Derby anywhere)

I don't hate it, I have at least two friends who skated it for a living. I DO recognize it for what it is/was.

George Copeland is fine, but most of the leagues that would be pitching this story to the press would be all-women's leagues, so pointing back to a guy adds needless wrinkles to the story.

sonofapreacherman wrote:
Poobah wrote:

As for ways to fix it, leagues with minority skaters probably need to try to have those skaters talk to their local minority press.

Presuming they want to run a story on a team with one or two minority skaters and an overwhelmingly non-diverse audience. The best place for a story like that is the Rollercon maybe, but I have no idea how diverse that has gotten.

Well, where I'd be wanting the story to go would be to point out that the sport really isn't just for white folks. And that it historically HASN'T been just for white folks. And speaking of RollerCon and diversity, a skater who attended RC wouldn't do bad to mention having seen the two guys widely regarded as the best skaters in men's derby... what's their names again? Heh.

sonofapreacherman wrote:
Poobah wrote:

Drop Skinny Minnie's name and point out how Beyonslay is the most feared blocker in the sport.

Do you mean "drop" as in forget it or drop as in 'mention' it? if the former, then there is no value in that. Gwen is legendary. If the latter, you have to be either NYC or a die-hard fan to ever see Beyonslay, unfortunately.

I meant as in "name-dropping."

The point is that the skater is introducing potential new fans to the idea that this ISN'T such a "white sport" after all. Beyonslay being the best blocker anywhere reinforces that. Mentioning Skinny Minnie is a way to get the people who half-remember watching it in 1984 on the old TV down in the basement (while holding the UHF hoop) to say "Oh yeah, I remember that!" If you want to risk confusing the audience a bit by dropping men into it, one of the owners of this site happens to be a black guy who's regarded as one of the best jammers in men's derby, and then there's Barack Otrauma (nee Quadzilla), who's damned good at everything he does.

sonofapreacherman wrote:
Poobah wrote:

Substitute Rice Rocket/Kamikaze Kim/Hyperlynx/etc as needed.

What I twit I am, I had not even considered asians. Which is ironic considering that Japan started flat track derby. Need to broaden my mind a tad there.

Well, at least in my OTHER hometown there was a LOAD of Asian-American weekly newspapers. Derby has a number of Asian skaters right now, maybe it needs to focus on that market a bit. To be honest, Hispanics are the potential skater talent pool (and market) that probably needs an even greater focus right now.

Sometimes when I bring this stuff up, people get an uncomfortable look on their face. Not that they don't want to reach out to minorities, but they don't want to seem to be focusing on race or ethnicity, which I get. But every form of news media has its own demographics.

There are newspapers that are aimed at folks who live in that suburb. A skater from that suburb can get a story there, the rest can't. There's papers aimed at blacks, white skaters aren't likely to get interest from them. There's papers aimed at African-Americans, Hispanics, Jews, gays, etc. If you have skaters who fit a paper (or a radio station's) target demographic, sending them to the interview (even along with others) is a no-brainer.

It's a bit of time spent (maybe at a practice) with a newspaper that comes out every week and is probably looking for news that interests their market ("one of us doing..."), and probably is hoping for ads from the league down the road. I've seen good results from general purpose community newspapers. Not as many read them, but those who do are more likely to take an interest in what they read.

-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Clipboard Monkey
Roc City Roller Derby

Barack O'Trauma...

...is proof that derby names are awesome.

That is all.

Amen to that

A great name it is though I preferred Quadzilla. I have no idea what his real name is but the name quadzilla is a great nickname across the board.

That is another skater who , from what I have seen, is just incredible. A true throwback in so many ways with enough new style to be very 'now'. The top of my list if I was starting a pro league.

True, true.

The Skater Formerly Known as Quadzilla scares the crap out of me.

In a good way.

You do know that Quadzilla

You do know that Quadzilla used to skate in Roller Jam, right?

Quadzilla

He's jamming in this YouTube clip at the 2:52 mark. Apparently flying bulldogs are the only way to stop him.

JFM

Not to mention the fun move

Not to mention the fun move he does at 1:10 in This Clip here.

well there is always another way..

Justice Feelgood Marshall wrote:

He's jamming in this YouTube clip at the 2:52 mark. Apparently flying bulldogs are the only way to stop him.

JFM

I never really liked the bulldog in derby. I prefer the jump blocks. No holding involved, just good timing. That worked on him. Though I would anticipate him giving someone a receipt for that.

Very astute as always Poobah

I always enjoy when you let your analytical side spread its wings. I would think that any recruitment is good so while some may screw up their faces when you bring it up, You just keep doing it. we dont want this to be Hockey now, do we?

Although I am flattered

... to get mentioned with Quadzilla as a great men's skater, and I'm sure Slay would be flattered to be called the best blocker anywhere, I am morally obligated to point out that 'flashy' doesn't always mean best.

There are a lot of incredible players who are not flashy but really, really, really smart -- they might rarely put a highlight-reel hit or dodge on somebody, but are always exactly where they need to be to create a lane for their jammer, or, as a jammer, to wait long enough to take advantage of same.

Blocking wise, two that leap to mind are Annie Maul of Kansas City and Bullet Tooth Tracy of Texas, and jamming-wise, Teflon Donna of Philly and Dr. Spankenstein of Pioneer Valley (boys can be smart too!)

JFM

I think you may have missed something

Recap of my verbacious off-topic blather: He'd expressed some disappointment that derby today isn't as diverse as it was back in the 60s-80s. I offered a few reasons why that's probably the case. And suggested outreach to those communities via minority skaters interviewing in already-targeted community newspapers and/or radio stations. Maybe putting out the message that derby wasn't/isn't such a "white sport."

In other words, I was making a to-do about your being a great skater who happens to be black, but for the right reasons. It was less a list of great skaters than a list of great skaters who fit demographics the sport needs to reach out to. I know there's some great Hispanic skaters out there, but my mind's like a sieve.

Interesting (to me) historical footnote: Rollergames had a black manager before most real sports did. And he managed the "good guys."

-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Roc City Roller Derby

another historical note

Poobah wrote:

Interesting (to me) historical footnote: Rollergames had a black manager before most real sports did. And he managed the "good guys."

-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Roc City Roller Derby

I assume you are referring to John Hall, long time T-Bird manager. John actually was the coach and manager of RG's Detroit Devils (a redshirt team) long before that. Copeland, Bob Woodberry, Jojo Stafford and Ronnie Robinson had all been coaches of teams in the 60s and early 70s by then. This just further supports your point about the historical diversity in Derby and Games.

Other side of the coin...

This is solely my own observation and shouldn't be taken as speaking for ANYONE, but one of the really cool things about roller derby is how it melts away typically divisive factors like age, socioeconomic status, orientation, and body type. Singling people out for things that have little relation to their performance as skaters tends to undermine that, especially when they are completely different people both on and off the track. And while some people in derby choose names that reflect their heritage, whether mentioning it outright or making reference to someone else with the same background, that doesn't necessarily mean they want to be tokenized or turned into spokespeople.

flashy may not mean best but...

flashy does put butts in the seats and brings them back for more. Once you charge money , you need some show. I would agree that there are those who are quietly succesful and can even "draw", but you also have to 'stars'. Not just in ability, but in crowd appeal. Not every one has it. Some people just have a great charisma that makes you want to see them do something. Some people make the easy things look difficult (i.e. ball players who hesitate a tad before chasing a flyball just so they can make a spectacular diving catch).

I do appreciate your interest in pointing out those who are solid,who may not get the press they deserve.

Flat track leagues/teams are

Flat track leagues/teams are being invited to play on the bank throughout this year. And predictably, they do very well with very little practice time in advance of games.

Banked Track != Old School. And to most of us, Old School == Roller Games. I'd say a slim majority of people in the modern game were born after 1980. And a very tiny minority were born before 1970. The legit game, if it was ever really that legit, is lost in the mists of time, trampled by the later "pro" game.

BTW, define "gloves off".

from PPDD

Hey all! On behalf of PPDD, I just want to say thanks to all the teams who came out. It was great seeing you all. Also, big thanks to DNN for their coverage, and of course the visiting refs and announcers who came out and helped make the Four Corner Feud possible. The tourney was a great success and we hope to make it a regular thing!

Congratulations to DRD for the win! You guys played awesome! I can't wait to see the rematch whenever you and our All Stars get to play again.

wonderpance #2
Pikes Peak Derby Dames

In case you missed the 4CF Live MooseCast...

Amidst all of the technical difficulties, we did get some of the tournament recorded:

http://www.ustream.tv/rss/videos/DerbyNewsNet

I'll try to get the titles cleaned up so that they have a little more meaning.

Enjoy!

Moose

That link isn't quite working

It takes me to a page where Google wants me to add something to my RSS feed. Is there a way for us that aren't into the RSSness to take a look back at it?

-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Garbage Plate Gormandizer
Roc City Roller Derby

Just ignore the RSS feed at the top

Scroll down and click on the links instead. They take you directly to the video pages.

JFM

Salt City missed; how can we avoid this next time?

No pun intended but all this praise and congratulation is probably rubbing salt in Salt City's wound. My understanding is that Salt City was originally supposed to play in the tournament, thus all of the Four Corners states would be represented, but they had to drop out because of the travel expenses. Is that correct? Is this going to happen more and more in a down economy? There's got to be a way leagues can help each other out in this situation. Maybe this isn't feasible, but can't WFTDA step in with some emergency funds or on-demand sponsorships for situations like this? I mean I know it's also up to leagues not to overcommit, but it seems a shame to not have had the full set of leagues in the tournament. Has this issue come up in WFTDA discussions at all? How can we avoid this next time?

WFTDA?

I'm not really sure what WFTDA has to do with a league dropping out of a tourney? What can/should WFTDA do about that?

For the record...I have no idea the reasons that Salt City was unable to play in 4 Corners. I do know they will be in Denver to play RMRG next weekend though. :)

That sounds like it would get awfully messy.

I also don't know the reasons why Salt City dropped out of the tournament. But, I can't imagine that WFTDA would really have the funds to be stepping in and handing out $ to leagues so that they can travel. Unless it is distributed evenly and fairly. (Hopefully one day this can be the norm!)

Also, as I understood it, this tournament was really just for fun. So that we could all get in 2 sanctioned bouts before tournament time.

From what I remember, didn't Dominion have to step down from playing at the Eastern Regionals last year? WFTDA didn't step in then & I see no reason why it would be their responsibility to do it for a tournament that isn't an official WFTDA tourney.

P.S. Congrats to DRD. They really looked awesome out there.
And, I'll chime in with another thanks to PPDD for a job really well done:)

dealing with last-minute cancellations

Ah, I forgot Four Corners wasn't an official WFTDA tournament (but in hindsight, duh, of course it's not).

I used to organize concerts, and despite my best scrambling and setting up of backup plans, I always took a real beating when any talent or a venue backed out at the last minute. Many other contracts had been signed and promotion had been done, all based on everything happening on a certain date with certain headliners; I had no choice but to either scrap the whole thing or limp through under less than ideal circumstances. I imagine it has to be just as hectic and stressful for the leagues trying to put on interleague bouts and tourneys, when they get last-minute cancellations.

Like I said, though, leagues which don't have their act together should not be rewarded for overcommitting, and I didn't mean to imply that WFTDA should be *expected* to do anything. It's just that with all the advance preparation that goes into interleague bouts, it seems to me there's got to be a great deal of financial risk for the hosts when a visiting league drops out at the last minute. For a multi-league tournamenht tere's probably less risk, and in the Four Corners case I think Salt City dropped out with plenty of notice, but there's probably a bit of a sting felt by the league that can't make it -- for example, maybe Salt City was counting on getting in 2 sanctioned bouts as well.

So I was thinking when a last-minute cancellation happens through no fault (or minimal fault) of a WFTDA member's own, it seems like it would be ideal to have some options to fill the void. My thought was maybe having on-call sponsors -- say, WFTDA would have a sort of insurance fund to guarantee its season schedule -- they'd contract with some sponsors who'd commit to contributing, on demand, up to a certain amount of money, a limited # of times in a season, to help cover these kinds of last-minute 'emergencies' for its members, and in exchange the sponsor would get placement and be talked up at the bouts. The sponsor might end up donating once or twice or not at all. Maybe that's too much work for not enough reward, or such a system would get abused, or maybe there's not as much fallout from last-minute cancellations as I'm imagining; I don't know. That's why I am asking about it. :)

My understanding...

I got the impression from something I read who-knows-where that they couldn't make it due to a scheduling conflict.

But anyways, it's a tough economy. The reason there probably WAS this tournament at all was partially so that the leagues could get a bunch of interleague bouts in without three or four separate trips. No one was obligated or necessarily even expected to participate in this one. It's cool that nearly all in the four states were able to.

-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Clipboard Monkey
Roc City Roller Derby

thanks Poobah

Interesting. OK, thanks! :)

agreed.

Winona Fighter wrote:

From what I remember, didn't Dominion have to step down from playing at the Eastern Regionals last year? WFTDA didn't step in then & I see no reason why it would be their responsibility to do it for a tournament that isn't an official WFTDA tourney.

yep, we sure did have to step down from playing eastern regionals and though it was completely heartbreaking, i don't think anyone in our league expected WFTDA to come to our rescue. i completely agree that it would get messy very fast if WFTDA were to start stepping in only for certain leagues and not for others, whether it be through monetary funds OR emergency sponsors. it's a nice idea in theory but i don't think it'd fly because it's simply not fair to the other leagues. if WFTDA wanted to help out ALL the leagues participating (assuming they had the resources to do that) then that would be entirely different. in the end, i don't think anyone can, or should, take responsibility but the league itself. in hindsight, we probably could have planned better for eastern regionals but in the end, it is what it is - and always a learning experience.

and congrats to DRD!

Sweet N. Lowdown (retired)

Sweet N. Lowdown (retired)

Sweet N. Lowdown wrote:

Sweet N. Lowdown (retired)

One of the saddest parentheticals ever in derby... :-(

Fault too hard to judge

You're probably right. Oh well, nevermind.

On Topic

Thanks to everyone involved for putting on a great derby weekend!
We will be back next year.

Pitchit #33
Dry Heat Derby
http://www.dryheatderby.com

Argggh NT

*sigh*