Dominion Withdraws from Eastern Regionals
In a disappointment for the crew from Virginia Beach, the Dominion Derby Girls, the lowest seed in the upcoming Eastern Regionals, has been forced by personnel issues to drop out. Dominion has always been one of the smallest successful WFTDA leagues roster-wise, managing to rise to #22 in the national rankings despite almost never being able to field a full 14-skater lineup. Along with #19 Grand Raggidy [edit: and #20 Cincinnati] they're one of the only teams in the top 25 that do not play a local-teams season, going with a strictly interleague structure.
DNN talked to Dominion's The Ruffian about the decision:
There are a couple major reasons we had to reach this decision, one being money and the other being a lack of skaters. As a league, we were not able to offer any financial support to our skaters who would have to pay for this trip completely out of pocket. The uncertainty of being able to raise enough money through fundraising, was not a comfortable place to be in for some people. In addition, we have always been a small league, usually carrying no more than 12 skaters on a game roster at a time. Currently we have 13 active skaters. Of those 13 only 5 were able to say that they could definitely commit to making the tournament. Many had work conflicts and could not guarantee that they could get the time off. We are extremely heartbroken about this decision, but hope that the derby community understands the predicament we are in. We want to congratulate Providence on their opportunity to appear and wish them the best of luck!
As The Ruffian alludes to, the withdrawal is cause for celebration for Providence fans, as the #23 team from Rhode Island moves into the Dominion slot and will be facing Dominion's scheduled opponent, #9 Detroit, on Eastern Regionals' opening day. While Detroit had met and solidly defeated Dominion 165-53 at June's East Coast Extravaganza event, Detroit and Providence have never played one another.
Comments
Sometimes it's wise....
Sometimes it's wise to bow out with dignity, rather than bite off more than you can handle. Our league also is struggling with these same issues this season, so I totally understand.
Bat Wing
Ref - CoMo Derby Dames, Columbia, MO.
Jammer - Midwest Men's Roller Derby (Midwest Monsters), regional club
http://www.myspace.com/refbatwing
More than understandable
Well, that's obviously disappointing news. Dominion has busted their tails for the past year; trying to play the best teams they could schedule, to up their game and earn respect; striving to reach the goal of making an appearance at this year's regional tournament. I BELIEVE that goal was a huge consideration for the decision to become an all-interleague competition league.
At any rate, the need to withdraw is completely understandable. I know, because similar factors influenced my decided absence from Madison, as well. The logistics/cost balance of getting to Madison is not the easiest, and the Friday AM starting time really adds to the demands of attending, too.
I'm not sure how the schedule/structure will look in '09, but making each tournament an 8 team (and thus, 2 day) format, could really benefit leagues whose players simply cannot afford to miss a day of work. This news is no doubt disappointing, but does serve nicely in providing some perspective, as to where derby lives, or amateur athletics, in general, do (or maybe should/shouldn't) fall in the grand scheme of lives, as a whole.
Nigel Toughnails
Referee- Carolina
(Head Referee for Dominion; Dec'06- Jul'07)
It makes me really sad that
It makes me really sad that Dominion's all-stars won't get to reap the full rewards of their accomplishment. They've done so much with so few people, and every time I see them, I'm impressed with how much they have improved since the last time, both as individuals and a team.
Never saw them but still sad
I have never seen Dominion, and I do love the idea of New England having more than one team at Regionals. But any time a group of people bust their backsides to achieve a goal and then have to lose out based upon such factors it is sad to see. Hopefully, there will be more sponsors out there to at least help with the financial issues in the future. I do not know all that much about their local scene, but hopefullly word will get out about how this team accomplished something remarkable and is poised for a solid run in the future.
For the record...
#20 Cincinnati also has no local teams season, concentrating only on interleague play.
Cherry Choke
Cincinnati Rollergirls
Thanks for the correction
I learn something new everyday!
JFM
Same for Naptown and NWARG
#20 Cincinnati also has no local teams season, concentrating only on interleague play.
Cherry Choke
Cincinnati Rollergirls
Same for Naptown (Indy) and Northwest Arkansas (Fayetteville). For a lot of smaller leagues, the A-travel (Varsity) team and B-travel (Fresh Meat) team model seams to work a little better (or just having a single A team, in some cases). Plus, (I believe, and many have agreed) it seems to reinforce solidarity and unity, rather than stirring up infighting and competitive animosity within the league; it's hard enough for people to co-operate and get things done as a group as it is, and then you go creating rivalries.
With big huge leagues, like Gotham, it makes sense to have intraleague teams since you have tens and dozens of skaters from all over the entire giant city. But when you're scraping by with twenty to thirty people to handle all of the demanding league business and expenses.... it's a totally different story.
Just my two :)
Bat Wing
Ref - CoMo Derby Dames, Columbia, MO.
Jammer - Midwest Men's Roller Derby (Midwest Monsters), regional club
http://www.myspace.com/refbatwing
Gotta pay rent
I am by no means someone who speaks on behalf of Gotham, but...
Intraleague games are how we pay our bills! It's also how we have our fun, get to skate, learn the sport, share derby with NYC, train up our talent, etc. I feel like our league is at its natural carrying capacity this large. It takes such a tremendous amount of human labor to run things that I don't know that we would survive in the dog eat dog NYC being small. Then again, I was not yet part of the league when we were 35 people strong, as I joined the first year of tryouts when my "tryout class" nearly doubled the size of the league. I love that there are so many different models for success in this sport.
I also want to say that I am heartbroken for Dominion. We all in the derby family get how hard you have to work to make a league successful--whichever model you choose. I'm so very sorry.
-'Slay
"Never trust a big butt and a smile" -BelBivDevoe
Great point
Intraleague games are how we pay our bills! It's also how we have our fun, get to skate, learn the sport, share derby with NYC, train up our talent, etc.
That's a great point, Slay, and it is the reason that the girls in my league have been very reluctant to abandon the intraleague model; we always lose money on travel bouts, and maybe break even when hosting teams. I definitely hear you there.
Bat Wing
Ref - CoMo Derby Dames, Columbia, MO.
Jammer - Midwest Men's Roller Derby (Midwest Monsters), regional club
http://www.myspace.com/refbatwing
Quite correct, 'Slay
In most cities, intraleague bouts draw more fans, as there's more participating skaters drawing their friends, families and fans. Additionally, a larger league has more skaters paying dues, which makes it easier to help fund travel costs.
Fewer skaters means fewer skaters soliciting sponsorships, fewer skaters with "connections," fewer volunteers (hubbies and s.o.'s are a great source), etc. Skaters who aren't quite skilled enough for the travel team still have a good reason to "come to work."
A single team league winds up putting skaters who have only scrimmaged against other leagues' travel teams.
If your league is well managed, grief and politics won't need to be any worse in a multi-team league than in a single team league. As a tag-along idiot who doesn't pay dues, I'm quite glad we're no longer a single-team league.
Do it while you have to, expand the first chance you get.
-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Sin City Stat Pack
Fabulous Sin City Rollergirls
Intraleague vs. Interleague success...
#20 Cincinnati also has no local teams season, concentrating only on interleague play.
Cherry Choke
Cincinnati Rollergirls
Same for Naptown (Indy) and Northwest Arkansas (Fayetteville). For a lot of smaller leagues, the A-travel (Varsity) team and B-travel (Fresh Meat) team model seams to work a little better (or just having a single A team, in some cases). Plus, (I believe, and many have agreed) it seems to reinforce solidarity and unity, rather than stirring up infighting and competitive animosity within the league; it's hard enough for people to co-operate and get things done as a group as it is, and then you go creating rivalries.
With big huge leagues, like Gotham, it makes sense to have intraleague teams since you have tens and dozens of skaters from all over the entire giant city. But when you're scraping by with twenty to thirty people to handle all of the demanding league business and expenses.... it's a totally different story.
Just my two :)
Bat Wing
Ref - CoMo Derby Dames, Columbia, MO.
Jammer - Midwest Men's Roller Derby (Midwest Monsters), regional club
http://www.myspace.com/refbatwing
Very well-put thoughts on that Bat Wing and I completely agree.
For leagues trying to make it in the 'big-time' that roller derby is becoming (yay!) - its getting more and more competitive and expensive! "For skaters by skaters" is a wonderful philosophy but puts a strain on the time and pockets of skaters who have lives, families and jobs to also consider.
I agree wholeheartedly that going with an interleague only structure (A/B team) is extremely beneficial to those leagues who may be unable to field four full home teams plus a travel roster. It not only helps the league focus, like you said, and do away with intraleague rivalries and drama, but its a financially sound decision as far as marketing and production goes.
Beyonslay also has great points - intraleague team bouts help fund travel and for cities who can manage that many skaters, is a great way to learn the game before going primetime. Some leagues are going to have to take a good hard look at their own numbers and factors (such as venue costs) into consideration when deciding whether to have home-team bouts or stick to just travel bouting. I'm a big advocate of interleage-only structure and its great to see success stories like Dominion, Grand Raggidy and Cincy out there to support it!
Much love and condolences in what has to be a big disappointment to Dominion. Know that you are admired for your dedication and hard work regardless!
~Envie~
The problem with the A/B team model
The problem with it is that every bout is a travel bout. You're either traveling or paying someone else to come in. If you live 70-100 miles from the nearest few leagues, that's probably workable. If you're in certain parts of the U.S. (and Canada) that tends to require skaters flying in.
That gets horrendously expensive fast. If you want a "best model," I'd go with home teams, and A/B team on top of it (if your fans are used to doubleheaders). That gives you lots of options, and lots of chances for skaters to play the game.
This thing about home teams equaling grief. Does your doctor try to solve your carpal tunnels problem by cutting off your arms? If your skaters put the league first and see interleague stuff as the end game, you won't have these problems. Problems with home teams and politics are cultural, not structural. More teams means more skaters with bouting experience, more fans coming to the bouts and more money.
Lest my commentary be taken the wrong way, Dominion kicks ass. I've seen it first hand.
-Barely even speaking for myself...
*~[
Grand Poobah
Western leagues = more travel costs and fewer derby roadtrips
If you live 70-100 miles from the nearest few leagues, that's probably workable. If you're in certain parts of the U.S. (and Canada) that tends to require skaters flying in.
Yes, that is definitely an issue, especially for us who are out here in the west where things are more spread out.
Here in Phoenix, we are within one-day driving distance to So. Cal, Las Vegas and Albuqerque. This is why we see a lot of Renegade travel bouts involving their teams in PHX, OC and SD.
Many of the recent AZRD travel bouts have been regionals (Sacred City, Rocky Mountain, Rose City coming up).. A scheduled bout against Boston was canceled earlier this year.
The issue of geographic separation poses an interesting situation for the Valley Fever Roller Demons, the new OSDA league that is forming here in Arizona. With the recent folding of Navy City, there are no west OSDA teams and there are no teams within "roadtrip" distance that they can play (since no other league within the region has adopted Old School rules). All of the OSDA leagues are concentrated in the northeast right now. This will present the VFRD folks with some interesting challenges.
The travel team bouts are more popular with the fans when they are promoted correctly. Also, fans who know derby and follow their league know that they will always expect a higher standard of play during a travel bout.
My heart is out there for Dominion. Hopefully they will build up their resources and we will see them in next year's regionals.
with derby love...
Michi-chan
The Arizona Derby Report
Member, OSDA Advisory Board
http://www.michichan.com
Very sad for Dominion. I
Very sad for Dominion. I wish them the best and hope that they make it to the Regionals next year. Having said that... GO PROV!!! My "'lil team that could" gets a break from Lady Luck and I cant wait to see what happens with this often magical team. Other teams better not overlook Providence because they have pulled off some shockers in the past.Howzabout Prov over Gotham??! No?? Yeah...probably not. Still love Prov tho.
Didn't this happen before???
IIRC a few teams did not make it to Dust Devil 07 for the same reason.
As for Providence, I believe drawing Detroit or Charm City ain't gonna be a piece of cake.
The Original GGRDonald
or Sweet Sherry Pie~! ;-)
dust devil 07
IIRC a few teams did not make it to Dust Devil 07 for the same reason.
As for Providence, I believe drawing Detroit or Charm City ain't gonna be a piece of cake.
The Original GGRDonald
or Sweet Sherry Pie~! ;-)
Houston didn't make it to DD07; Pikes peak took their place.
Holly Gohardly
Charm City Roller Girls
Dominion's never really had it easy
IIRC a few teams did not make it to Dust Devil 07 for the same reason.
As for Providence, I believe drawing Detroit or Charm City ain't gonna be a piece of cake.
The Original GGRDonald
or Sweet Sherry Pie~! ;-)
It actually even happened to Dominion before too. I just found a piece of scrap paper while I was cleaning my office and it said "Steel City instead of Dominion, Sunday 2pm". That would have been ECE 07.
Injuries
With Dominion being a small league and the community largely being transient (multiple military bases) faces come and go. I was one of those. I cannot thank Dominion enough for getting me started and teaching me the sport.
I could be wrong but I think our already small travel team had a rash of injuries that month and could not field a roster. None the less, the ladies did multiple challenge bouts and had a great time.
Hailey Hawkeye
Former Head Ref July 07 - Oct 07
Now Reffing with Green Country
and the nine-month injury
Multiple pregnancy impacted Dominion's ECE07 lineup, too. Steel City filling in at the last minute was pretty badass, because they had a home bout the night before and drove straight through. Derby girls are effing hardcore.
Money vs. Less Money, Health vs. Exhaustion
I look at "to intraleague or not to intraleague" as a combination of two cost/benefit considerations (someone kill me, I'm thinking like an economist).
1) More vs less money; for the majority of leagues, more bouts = more money. Beonslay makes all the great points here. In the case of some leagues, intraleague bouts can draw a larger crowd, simply because more homegrown talent is playing - thus more family, friends, and referents are coming. Being a new sport, to those immersed in derby, a high-ranking WFTDA team coming to town is exciting, but we're still growing a fanbase and teaching them - so sometimes the lack of knowledge has some financial drawbacks.
Like when I went to see West Ham United (!!!) play the Columbus Crew this year, they had their second lowest attendance of the season, despite the allure of a top member of the UK's Premier League coming to town. Stupid soccer fans.
Oh, back on topic:
2) Health vs less health. This isn't just for the risk of injuries, but also the physical and mental exhaustion that comes from bouting so frequently. Bouting less frequently helps prevent burnout and stress for some; moreover, intraleague can sometimes bring with it the side effect of hurting morale and cohesion as a single team. Not always; but it is a risk as one's competitive spirit is torn between wanting to beat and stand alongside your teammates at the same time.
So those things collide, along with other considerations to be sure, and different people come to different conclusions.
It's a shame that Dominion had to drop out; that said, by doing so they show a great deal of respect for themselves, their opponents, and the game on the whole.
Why ya gotta be so eloquent
Why ya gotta be so eloquent all the time, Murder?
Because You've Never Been Drinking With Me
Why ya gotta be so eloquent all the time, Murder?
That's why. Many can attest to my bad-drunk status.
Designated driver for life
Designated driver for life here. Some people might think that's a drag, but it's not; I'm the one who remembers everyone else's bad drunk moments and puts 'em in the vault for future reference. :P
about that...
Designated driver for life here. Some people might think that's a drag, but it's not; I'm the one who remembers everyone else's bad drunk moments and puts 'em in the vault for future reference. :P
Note to self: don't drink around DayGlo.
Eloquence
Why ya gotta be so eloquent all the time, Murder?
You know how when you go to a big National Park and there are signs that read: PLEASE DON'T FEED THE BEARS?
We all know the obvious reason for those signs is so that less evolved Homo sapiens don't get mauled to death feeding a starving bear by hand, while their significant others shoot video they will later sell to the evil moron producers of "When Animals Attack 8: This Time it's Darwin".
Well, to some degree, the same goes for Professor Murder. PLEASE DON'T FEED HIS EGO!
LOL!
but I like it
Why ya gotta be so eloquent all the time, Murder?
You know how when you go to a big National Park and there are signs that read: PLEASE DON'T FEED THE BEARS?
We all know the obvious reason for those signs is so that less evolved Homo sapiens don't get mauled to death feeding a starving bear by hand, while their significant others shoot video they will later sell to the evil moron producers of "When Animals Attack 8: This Time it's Darwin".
Well, to some degree, the same goes for Professor Murder. PLEASE DON'T FEED HIS EGO!
LOL!
But I like the animal attacks videos!
As long as he doesn't decide
As long as he doesn't decide to trade the kilt for Tomahawk's bike shorts or Tootie's thong...
*cough*
So, I'm looking forward to reading the results of ECE. Have we been promised anything in the way of liveblogs/twitters/whatsits?
ECE? Or Eastern Regionals?
Assuming you meant the second, rest assured that DNN will be pulling out all available stops (and all available lint from our pockets, hopefully supplemented by some support from the community) to provide exhaustively detailed liveblog coverage of every bout of all three WFTDA tournaments. Because we're just that awesome. And crazy.
JFM
So Much For Eloquence.
Heh. And woohoo for the assurances.
Back on the subject..
I, too, am super sad that DDG won't make the trip to Madison this fall. We were looking forward to returning the tremendous hospitality they showed the Dairyland Dolls while we were there just a few short weekends ago.. I guess a rain check is definitely in order!
As you may know, Dominion just hosted a huge event called "Commotion by the Ocean", featuring grass roots derby vendors, workshops for skaters, refs, and even set-up crew, and of course, scrimmaging! Derby kin came from far and wide to get in on the action. The charitable goal was to raise awarenes for breast cancer research, and proceeds went to the Susan G. Komen Foundation. All this was capped off by our bout, just after an exhibition bout featuring the Breast Strokes vs. the Booby Traps.
Thank You Dominion Derby Girls for an overwhelmingly fun derby filled day! (That's right, all in one day) How is a pasty WI derby girl supposed to get her beachtime on? You all were marvelous hostesses, friends, and sports. Its times like these that remind me, in the midst of a very busy season, to appreciate how kickass it is to be a part of the ever-growing derby family.
To all of DDG, and all who helped out with and attended the Commotion,
Thank you.
I wish I could pick you all up in my station wagon and bring you to Madison myself.
mouse #4
Dairyland Dolls
And to Providence-
While my heart goes out to Dominion, congratulations are also in order-
What a twist! I can only imagine what it must feel like as a skater to get the news, and to start gearing up for this event. Any time someone takes the track in another skater's stead, be it for a fallen teammate, or a team who steps into an unforseen opening, there is a bitter, yet sweet new growth in showmanship and appreciation for all that we do. I'm really excited to see you all here- it was so much fun watching you skate at ECE. I know you will all rise to the occasion and make for some gooooood derby!
Happy training!
mouse
Thank you all!!
For your kind words and understanding! I do not need to reiterate how heart breaking of a decision this was, but I am very happy that you all understand and support our choice. I am SO proud of what Dominion has been able accomplish in such a short time and it is flattering to see how many people have been following our progress. Though we have always been a small league, we have worked hard to attain our current ranking. Rest assured you will be hearing more from Dominion in the future and we will definitely be on the track next September in Raleigh!!
Much derby love to you all!!
The Ruffian
Dominion Derby Girls
www.dominionderbygirls.net
WAIT A SECOND!!!!!!
For your kind words and understanding! I do not need to reiterate how heart breaking of a decision this was, but I am very happy that you all understand and support our choice. I am SO proud of what Dominion has been able accomplish in such a short time and it is flattering to see how many people have been following our progress. Though we have always been a small league, we have worked hard to attain our current ranking. Rest assured you will be hearing more from Dominion in the future and we will definitely be on the track next September in Raleigh!!
Much derby love to you all!!
The Ruffian
Dominion Derby Girls
www.dominionderbygirls.net
When was Carolina given the Eastern Regionals????
The Original GGRDonald
me and Costa are there, Dudes!
TBA
For your kind words and understanding! I do not need to reiterate how heart breaking of a decision this was, but I am very happy that you all understand and support our choice. I am SO proud of what Dominion has been able accomplish in such a short time and it is flattering to see how many people have been following our progress. Though we have always been a small league, we have worked hard to attain our current ranking. Rest assured you will be hearing more from Dominion in the future and we will definitely be on the track next September in Raleigh!!
Much derby love to you all!!
The Ruffian
Dominion Derby Girls
www.dominionderbygirls.net
When was Carolina given the Eastern Regionals????
The Original GGRDonald
me and Costa are there, Dudes!
To Be announced...
Holly Gohardly
Charm City Roller Girls
Translation......
For your kind words and understanding! I do not need to reiterate how heart breaking of a decision this was, but I am very happy that you all understand and support our choice. I am SO proud of what Dominion has been able accomplish in such a short time and it is flattering to see how many people have been following our progress. Though we have always been a small league, we have worked hard to attain our current ranking. Rest assured you will be hearing more from Dominion in the future and we will definitely be on the track next September in Raleigh!!
Much derby love to you all!!
The Ruffian
Dominion Derby Girls
www.dominionderbygirls.net
When was Carolina given the Eastern Regionals????
The Original GGRDonald
me and Costa are there, Dudes!
To Be announced...
Holly Gohardly
Charm City Roller Girls
SOMEONE JUMPED THE GUN!
The Original GGRDOnald
time for a re-start! ;-)
A/B Structure
In working with the Cincinnati Rollergirls this topic has taken over my mind. CRG feels your pain, Dominion, but we are very lucky to have a fantastic relationship with some of our sponsors! It is often not enough to have hard working, passionate skaters...
With no disregard to the tremendous efforts put forth by the WFTDA powers that be, I do beleive that WFTDA can solve much of this issue. Albeit extremely difficult and risky, divisions, regions, conferences, etc, with forced schedules, would make branding of derby, as a sport, easier. Successful branding allows for greater public education, which builds a fan base, which attracts sponsors, etc.
I can say that the media has a much greater understanding of who the Cincinnati Rollergirls are since we explained that we were one league with an "A" team and a "B" team. The concept of us being a league, who sometimes played each other and sometimes banded together to play other leagues was extremely confusing to a media that is used to communicating with The Cincinnati Reds, The Cincinnati Bengals, The Cincinnati Bearcats, The Xavier Muskateers, The Cincinnati Cyclones, The Miami Redhawks, The Dayton Flyers, The University of Kentucky Wildcats, etc. These are all professional ("good" not being important here), semi-pofessional or college organizations participating in very standardized leagues. In my mind, I envision a happy medium between the socially aware, competetive, DIY derby and the well known sports organizations.
I would say that CRG made the right decision and look forward to helping drive the message of derby for 2009!
So very nicely stated. And I
So very nicely stated. And I would tend to agree w/everything you said. Naptown is also officially an A/B league and I believe that it was a very astute decision. The A/B model may indeed be the future of Derby.
Wandering off on a tanget here....
All sympathies to Dominion, this must have been a difficult decision. It's sad to see a team that has shown that it is good enough to go to the regionals bow out.
On the interleague versus intraleague well... I'm going to let loose my non-expert, not deeply involved views here, I don't mean to offend, but... To some extant this debate is merely a PART of the eternal conflict between the just-want-to-have-funs versus the hardcores. You see it in bridge players, model train buffs, reenactors, and for all I know needlepointers. In derby this shows itself as a conflict between those whose emphasis is upon derby as a very competetive sport, and those who favor just having fun in an agressive, physical, campy way. Those who want the best sport possible tend to be more interested in interleague play because the average level of skating is better. The campy-fun skaters tend to have a greater emphasis on intra-league skating because more people get to participate, and the opportunites to engage in silly outfits and campy fun is greater. Just look at the uniforms of intraleague teams versus all-star teams.
In the year and a half that I've been going to Charm City bouts, I have definately seen the emphasis on derby as a SPORT increase. The skating has gotten better, especially in regards to teamwork. There's a bigger venue (allowing more spectators) and more interleague bouts. And yet there's less silly (but fun) theatrics, and less of a just sit on the floor and watch the fun sort of feel. As derby rapidly matures, we can mourn the slow fade of the homebrew party atmosphere even as we appreciate the improvements in athleticism. Just as getting older isn't better or worse than being younger, but it IS different.